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I will make it b'e"h
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Scientific studies show that it takes 90 days to break an addictive pattern in the mind. Start your own Log of your journey to 90 days! Post here to update us on your status and to give each other chizuk to stay strong!

TOPIC: I will make it b'e"h 197451 Views

Re: I will make it b"h 25 Dec 2016 21:35 #301133

sorry i lashed out like that before just so blinded by lack of sleep that i just couldn't enjoy the banter.but that is just an excuse and there really is no reason ever to get so mad (sigh) i have so much to work on better start by going to sleep since baby is sleeping
my thread:guardyoureyes.com/forum/4-On-the-Way-to-90-Days/300426-I-will-make-it-bh" option="guardyoureyes.com/forum/4-On-the-Way-to-90-Days/300426-I-will-make-it-bh">I will make it b"h


guardyoureyes.com/forum/20-Important-Threads/19180-FEEL-THE-HUGS%21%21%21" option="guardyoureyes.com/forum/20-Important-Threads/19180-FEEL-THE-HUGS%21%21%21">FEEL THE HUGS!!!

Re: I will make it b"h 25 Dec 2016 21:36 #301134

by the way can anyone explain this karma thing to me
my thread:guardyoureyes.com/forum/4-On-the-Way-to-90-Days/300426-I-will-make-it-bh" option="guardyoureyes.com/forum/4-On-the-Way-to-90-Days/300426-I-will-make-it-bh">I will make it b"h


guardyoureyes.com/forum/20-Important-Threads/19180-FEEL-THE-HUGS%21%21%21" option="guardyoureyes.com/forum/20-Important-Threads/19180-FEEL-THE-HUGS%21%21%21">FEEL THE HUGS!!!

Re: I will make it b"h 26 Dec 2016 03:31 #301154

  • serenity
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Yes, I can explain the karma thing to you. If I feel something you say is creating good karma I can let you know by upping your karma. It's basically if you're being positive or making me or others feel positive. If you're being negative and creating upset I can lower your karma. For me I'm a self centered guy so if you bump my thread I'll up your karma because I like when people give me attention. That's one of the reasons I can't post here to often to begin with; too much ego feeding for a guy like me
Much Hatzlacha!

My Threads:
Glad to be here
Don't slip it hurts
Lions & Tigers & Internet, Oh My!

--"ולא המדרש עיקר, אלא המעשה"
--"To promise not to do a thing is the surest way in the world to make a body want to go and do that very thing." Mark Twain
--"If, when you honestly want to, you find you cannot quit entirely, or if when drinking (or lusting), you have little control over the amount you take, you are probably alcoholic (or sexaholic)." AA Big Book P. 45. Parenthesis added.
--You hit rock bottom when you decide to stop digging.

Re: I will make it b"h 26 Dec 2016 03:45 #301157

  • serenity
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What works me is to just do this for today. "This" isn't just refraining from porn and masturbation. "This" is whatever actions I'm taking including and especially the positive things I do in my life. It's just what works for me and it may not work for others. For example if I say I'm going to go to minyan every day forever, I just won't go. Or of my baby (I'm past those days) is crying all night I just focus on what I have to do at that moment. I don't think about what of the baby cries tomorrow night.  I have a tendency to look at the big picture and try to figure out how things will play out. I can't always wrap my head around every outcome and this can lead me to feel restless, irritable and discontent. It also causes me to procrastinate and avoid doing things.

Maybe you can relate to some of that. Maybe you can't. That's what a big part of your journey through life is about, or I should say what mine has been about. Someone asked what the purpose of this forum is and what GYE is all about. I can't answer that because I'm not an insider here, but to me it's about people finding their place and learning about themselves. It's a place to open up a little and start exploring what makes you tick. It also has a lot of info and some very specific tools that will probably help the average the sinner to be better and maybe even remain porn and masturbation free. 

Hatzlacha 
Much Hatzlacha!

My Threads:
Glad to be here
Don't slip it hurts
Lions & Tigers & Internet, Oh My!

--"ולא המדרש עיקר, אלא המעשה"
--"To promise not to do a thing is the surest way in the world to make a body want to go and do that very thing." Mark Twain
--"If, when you honestly want to, you find you cannot quit entirely, or if when drinking (or lusting), you have little control over the amount you take, you are probably alcoholic (or sexaholic)." AA Big Book P. 45. Parenthesis added.
--You hit rock bottom when you decide to stop digging.

Re: I will make it b"h 26 Dec 2016 03:58 #301158

  • cordnoy
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serenity wrote on 26 Dec 2016 03:31:
Yes, I can explain the karma thing to you. If I feel something you say is creating good karma I can let you know by upping your karma. It's basically if you're being positive or making me or others feel positive. If you're being negative and creating upset I can lower your karma. For me I'm a self centered guy so if you bump my thread I'll up your karma because I like when people give me attention. That's one of the reasons I can't post here to often to begin with; too much ego feeding for a guy like me

You just created a feedin' frenzy for findin' old serenity threads to bump.
My email: thenewme613@hotmail.com
My threads:
GYE Handbook | Gibbor's Insights | GYE FAQ - Thanks Skep and DMS123456789 White Book | Big Book (Alcoholics Anonymous)

If one gives up at the first sign of a struggle, he is really not ready to be successful."
"Tryin' and doin' are two different thin's - tryin' is hopin'; doin' is succeedin'.
"The right thin' to do and the hard thin' to do are usually the same."


Disclaimer: I am not a cheerleader; B"H, there are many on the site. I am here to change myself, and with God's help, by some mistake, I might even help change others.

MY POSTS ARE NOT WRITTEN AS A MODERATOR UNLESS EXPLICITLY STATED.

Re: I will make it b"h 26 Dec 2016 04:00 #301159

  • cordnoy
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Y,

Please post more often.

Your words are golden.
My email: thenewme613@hotmail.com
My threads:
GYE Handbook | Gibbor's Insights | GYE FAQ - Thanks Skep and DMS123456789 White Book | Big Book (Alcoholics Anonymous)

If one gives up at the first sign of a struggle, he is really not ready to be successful."
"Tryin' and doin' are two different thin's - tryin' is hopin'; doin' is succeedin'.
"The right thin' to do and the hard thin' to do are usually the same."


Disclaimer: I am not a cheerleader; B"H, there are many on the site. I am here to change myself, and with God's help, by some mistake, I might even help change others.

MY POSTS ARE NOT WRITTEN AS A MODERATOR UNLESS EXPLICITLY STATED.

Re: I will make it b"h 27 Dec 2016 06:49 #301255

What works me is to just do this for today. "This" isn't just refraining from porn and masturbation. "This" is whatever actions I'm taking including and especially the positive things I do in my life. It's just what works for me and it may not work for others. For example if I say I'm going to go to minyan every day forever, I just won't go. Or of my baby (I'm past those days) is crying all night I just focus on what I have to do at that moment. I don't think about what of the baby cries tomorrow night.  I have a tendency to look at the big picture and try to figure out how things will play out. I can't always wrap my head around every outcome and this can lead me to feel restless, irritable and discontent. It also causes me to procrastinate and avoid doing things.



Maybe you can relate to some of that. Maybe you can't. That's what a big part of your journey through life is about, or I should say what mine has been about. Someone asked what the purpose of this forum is and what GYE is all about. I can't answer that because I'm not an insider here, but to me it's about people finding their place and learning about themselves. It's a place to open up a little and start exploring what makes you tick. It also has a lot of info and some very specific tools that will probably help the average the sinner to be better and maybe even remain porn and masturbation free. 



Hatzlacha 
Thanks for the food for thought some things definitely stuck a cord here though i don't procrastinate if i can't see all outcomes



thanks
my thread:guardyoureyes.com/forum/4-On-the-Way-to-90-Days/300426-I-will-make-it-bh" option="guardyoureyes.com/forum/4-On-the-Way-to-90-Days/300426-I-will-make-it-bh">I will make it b"h


guardyoureyes.com/forum/20-Important-Threads/19180-FEEL-THE-HUGS%21%21%21" option="guardyoureyes.com/forum/20-Important-Threads/19180-FEEL-THE-HUGS%21%21%21">FEEL THE HUGS!!!

Re: I will make it b"h 27 Dec 2016 12:45 #301262

feeling really low today way to much stress not good feel like on a slippery slope downwards help:scream:
my thread:guardyoureyes.com/forum/4-On-the-Way-to-90-Days/300426-I-will-make-it-bh" option="guardyoureyes.com/forum/4-On-the-Way-to-90-Days/300426-I-will-make-it-bh">I will make it b"h


guardyoureyes.com/forum/20-Important-Threads/19180-FEEL-THE-HUGS%21%21%21" option="guardyoureyes.com/forum/20-Important-Threads/19180-FEEL-THE-HUGS%21%21%21">FEEL THE HUGS!!!

Re: I will make it b"h 27 Dec 2016 13:02 #301263

  • Gevura Shebyesod
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"stuck a cord"





Hmmmm....
!אנא עבדא דקודשא בריך הוא

וּבְיָדְךָ כֹּחַ וּגְבוּרָה וּבְיָדְךָ לְגַדֵּל וּלְחַזֵּק לַכֹּל

And every day that you want to waste, that you want to waste, you can
And every day that you want to wake up, that you want to wake, you can
And every day that you want to change, that you want to change, yeah
I'll help you see it through...


"If it would be so easy there wouldn't be a GYE, but if it would be impossible there also wouldn't be a GYE."

"Sometimes a hard decision leads to an easier outcome."

- General Grant



My story: guardyoureyes.com/forum/19-Introduce-Yourself/111583-hello-my-friends
Last Edit: 27 Dec 2016 13:04 by Gevura Shebyesod.

Re: I will make it b"h 27 Dec 2016 13:03 #301264

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Shame....

Don't feel stressed. Where you live? Israel? Ouch. Then you aren't on a break, hey?
I mean, in South Africa right now, it's like a ghost town. Everything's closed, nobody's here. Too much non-stress to be too stressed. Ya get my drift?
Now I know from experience that nobody can talk you out of feeling like this... anxious... stressed.
So just advice, will it help? Don't know...
Make a gratitude list.
Bake something? Do something you've always wanted to do. Like go for a run. You in Jerusalem? Running's great there. Very tough! Lots of hills. Once, I wanted to go to Israel just to be able to run from the Ohr Somayach to the old city. I remember that hill. Yee-ouch! I even told my Rabbi. He urged me to take December in Israel, for learning purposes, and I told him straight, I'd just want to go to run. I'm in it for the speed, man. Do you like running?
I also play squash. I schlepped my squash stuff to Israel for my Yeshiva year. And I ACTUALLY played twice at Hebrew U. It was so cool. I feel my rackets are so... international!!!

By the way, I'm rambling in the hopes that you can take your mind off your own stresses. Hope you like my storeh!

Keep shining, boet!
"Vegeta, what does the scouter say about his sobriety level?"
"... It's over NINE-ZEROOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!"

One day... At A Time :-D


Introduce Yourself and get a free karma point from yours truley!
My Thread

Re: I will make it b"h 27 Dec 2016 13:11 #301266

  • cordnoy
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Gevura Shebyesod wrote on 27 Dec 2016 13:02:


"stuck a cord"





Hmmmm....

OOuch!

Truth is: I'll just add it to the list and I won't feel a thin'.
My email: thenewme613@hotmail.com
My threads:
GYE Handbook | Gibbor's Insights | GYE FAQ - Thanks Skep and DMS123456789 White Book | Big Book (Alcoholics Anonymous)

If one gives up at the first sign of a struggle, he is really not ready to be successful."
"Tryin' and doin' are two different thin's - tryin' is hopin'; doin' is succeedin'.
"The right thin' to do and the hard thin' to do are usually the same."


Disclaimer: I am not a cheerleader; B"H, there are many on the site. I am here to change myself, and with God's help, by some mistake, I might even help change others.

MY POSTS ARE NOT WRITTEN AS A MODERATOR UNLESS EXPLICITLY STATED.

Re: I will make it b"h 27 Dec 2016 22:09 #301325

thanks for the pick me up

Unfortunately I hate running (even went jogging here b4 i got married) and part of the stress is that i baked sugar cookies with my 2yr old  girl and oh boy was that an experience but the wife liked them along with a new book i bought for her.
guess just not being on regular routine gets me edgy 

what the hell is squash?(assuming not the food thing)
my thread:guardyoureyes.com/forum/4-On-the-Way-to-90-Days/300426-I-will-make-it-bh" option="guardyoureyes.com/forum/4-On-the-Way-to-90-Days/300426-I-will-make-it-bh">I will make it b"h


guardyoureyes.com/forum/20-Important-Threads/19180-FEEL-THE-HUGS%21%21%21" option="guardyoureyes.com/forum/20-Important-Threads/19180-FEEL-THE-HUGS%21%21%21">FEEL THE HUGS!!!

Re: I will make it b"h 28 Dec 2016 07:49 #301376

cordnoy wrote on 06 Nov 2014 06:29:
Speakin' about honesty and stuff, here is Dov, in his famous 'Captain kirk' post, explainin' the benefits of openin' up to real people:

There was once an episode of Star Trek in which there was a time travel shtick, and the Kirk of the present, went 10 years into the past. Now, there was another Kirk then, too, right?

That was a big problem. The scientists told him that normally two of the same people cannot coexist. It just does not happen. But as this was an exception (it was a TV show and they were getting paid $15,000 per episode) as long as the old Kirk did not actually meet the present Kirk, all would be fine. However, if they actually met each other, the entire Time-Space Continuum would be 'ripped asunder' (chas veSholom). Under no circumstances could they be allowed to meet!

I do not remember what actually happened to Mr Shatner, but everything turned out OK for there were another few seasons of the show (and also we are all still here, no?). But my point is just this:

How does a frum guy get all drawn into his very private porn, admitting by his actions its awesome, sweet power for him, and privately have sex with himself (masturbate) with such intensity and imaginative pleasure and power? OK, so he has shame, self-loathing, and sadness afterward. But how does he do both tefillin, teaching Torah, being mekareiv and really davening for others hard and really crying for the churban, and really working on his middos....and masturbating himself with a fantasy that could only mean he (secretly) also worships the beauty and power of those naked shiksas and the act of sex? How does such a contradiction survive in him?

How does it survive in us?
My answer to myself is simple. We learn to lie a little. We lie to others and we lie to ourselves. We'll quit really soon. We won't do it any more when we are twenty....or fifty. Never on Shabbos. Never with masturbation. Etc. All lies, to ourselves. And over time, we learn to lie more and more without even noticing it, just as you cannot see yourself grow.

When we are being good, we feel good about ourselves and we wish we could forget the bad stuff we did last night - we call that a hirhur teshuvah. Really it is just so we do not hate ourselves so badly, but that's OK. We learn not to face it right now by pretending that we are 'forgiven' by Hashem. That way, one persona does not invade the other so much. It gets put off till the next time, if we are lucky.

When we are being 'bad', we wish we could forget how devoted we are to Hashem and His Torah and to our wives and children and to honesty with society - because it just feels so good to do the porn and we really see no way out of it. We know we need it and do not in a million years believe there is really an alternative for us, in the end. We end up 'ignoring' our kedusha during the act. That is lying to ourselves, and again, one persona does not see the other simultaneously. Pretending we are really rotten to the core is a much more comfortable way to act out. Nu. Who wants to hurt so much?

We walk about for years and are tortured inside, for we know the dichotomy we are hiding - we are the dichotomy. But we do not really know what to do. We fight to make one side gain mastery over the other and call that hisgabrus al hayeitzer. And we fall. Then we assume we are horrible Jews, and assume that Hashem agrees with us about that. That mistake is a hard one to shake...(see step 2)

So now about the time-travel dilemma.
When we open up to others under a username (or fake English name in a meeting) and share the entire truth (which most rarely do) about our addiction, we are still hiding our 'good' persona - the real me. It's OK to let them know the horrible dirt - yeah, all of it - as long as they do not know the 'good' persona too well. The two are just incompatible.

Thos who got caught by their wives or children know exactly what I am talking about. They understand why they getting caught was so effectivbe for a time - the desire to use the porn left them as a result of getting both personae dragged into the room at the same time. The horror of getting caught with my pants down by a co-worker, son, daughter, or wife is truly intolerable to anyone who has experienced it. Why?

Because the hypocrisy is mercilessly forced to come to a bitter end. The Time-Space Continuum has ripped asunder. We look frantically for a place to bury ourselves. It's hell.

It is the two Kirks being forced to see eachother by a third party - and only a party who knows both personae can possibly do that. Till that happens, we are all players. Lying a bit about the 'real us' to ourselves and to others.

Some of us insist on solving our problem without bringing the two personae together. Perhaps they are just avoiding the terribly painful end of their hypocrisy, perhaps not. I do not know what is best for another. But in my own case, I got caught, and it still didn't help. After a few weeks I was back at it and it got worse and worse until I couldn;t take it any more. i was begging for someone to rip off my cover and get me real! My wife could not do that, for she does not understand what I am talking about when I describe the desperation to get the sweet porn in my mind and heart and does not understand the allergy to it that I have.

So I needed real meetings - with real addicts. Perverts for decades who chose the path of sobriety because they had no choice. Just like me. People who can hear both sides of me. And I use my real name, wear my normal Jewish outfit, and talk with them freely about my real life.

And that flows out into being real with everybody else in my life, whether they know about my problem, or not.

And that is why so many of us are OK with goyim in meetings, but shrink into a corner when they meet a frum yid. There is a common strong desire to avoid and evade. And I do not blame them, for I had that, too. Here is a guy who can bring them even closer to the true full self! It's more pain to go through. But more healing, too.

Interestingly, I have seen newly recovering program-guys meet people from the meeting in public places just 'out of the blue' and totally ignore them, as if they didn't know them at all. Those guys did not remain sober. I think they may have been shocked by the cross-over from their 'meeting life' into their 'real life'. They were not willing to smile discreetly and say a polite "Hi" to the other guy. Instead, here was trouble - "so get away from me quick." Oy vavoi.

This is precisely why AA has a strong tradition of real anonymity. We do not reveal the identity of anyone else we meet in the rooms to non-members. Ever. But it's not about shame, at all. It's because sharing the secrets of others will not help their recovery at all! Only the truth that they want to share will help them.

Those who just get caught and stay clean out of fear of further humiliation never, ever stay better. Getting humiliated into sobriety does not work, until there is some humility added. Humilty (in hachno'oh to the truth) is the underpinning of the steps.

And that is why 'accountability groups' are nice but will ultimately fail, as long as they are based on avoiding shame - which they can easily become all about.

And that is why opening up to the wife (and remaining consistently open with her) is so very powerful - when done at the right time. It is powerful medicine for my recovery and powerful medicine for the marriage. Honesty there removes yet another layer of hiding from ourselves that has to go to the boards for true freedom.

Sharing my credit card number and address would not do any of these things for me, and neither would pulling up my pant-leg. It's not about compromising my security, nor my anonymity. It's not about getting hurt nor for the sake of being punished for all my wrongs until I can finally be good. This is not Teshuvah and it is not sigufim. It's all and only about being the real me with everyone that I can be, to the extent that I can be without violating the health of my family and others. We do the best we can in that, and ask Hashem to make it work right. And it works, period.


came across this and it really stuck a "cord"
since the misunderstanding with cordnoy i decided to "look him up" on his old threads first of all i think i can understand his language better now knowing where he came from...also that our problems are very similar.again i'm sorry "old man"

sorry everyone for the long post
my thread:guardyoureyes.com/forum/4-On-the-Way-to-90-Days/300426-I-will-make-it-bh" option="guardyoureyes.com/forum/4-On-the-Way-to-90-Days/300426-I-will-make-it-bh">I will make it b"h


guardyoureyes.com/forum/20-Important-Threads/19180-FEEL-THE-HUGS%21%21%21" option="guardyoureyes.com/forum/20-Important-Threads/19180-FEEL-THE-HUGS%21%21%21">FEEL THE HUGS!!!

Re: I will make it b"h 28 Dec 2016 07:50 #301377

markz how ami doin with the quote thingy?thanks for the tip
my thread:guardyoureyes.com/forum/4-On-the-Way-to-90-Days/300426-I-will-make-it-bh" option="guardyoureyes.com/forum/4-On-the-Way-to-90-Days/300426-I-will-make-it-bh">I will make it b"h


guardyoureyes.com/forum/20-Important-Threads/19180-FEEL-THE-HUGS%21%21%21" option="guardyoureyes.com/forum/20-Important-Threads/19180-FEEL-THE-HUGS%21%21%21">FEEL THE HUGS!!!

Re: I will make it b"h 28 Dec 2016 13:00 #301392

  • cordnoy
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czworking123 wrote on 28 Dec 2016 07:49:

cordnoy wrote on 06 Nov 2014 06:29:
Speakin' about honesty and stuff, here is Dov, in his famous 'Captain kirk' post, explainin' the benefits of openin' up to real people:

There was once an episode of Star Trek in which there was a time travel shtick, and the Kirk of the present, went 10 years into the past. Now, there was another Kirk then, too, right?

That was a big problem. The scientists told him that normally two of the same people cannot coexist. It just does not happen. But as this was an exception (it was a TV show and they were getting paid $15,000 per episode) as long as the old Kirk did not actually meet the present Kirk, all would be fine. However, if they actually met each other, the entire Time-Space Continuum would be 'ripped asunder' (chas veSholom). Under no circumstances could they be allowed to meet!

I do not remember what actually happened to Mr Shatner, but everything turned out OK for there were another few seasons of the show (and also we are all still here, no?). But my point is just this:

How does a frum guy get all drawn into his very private porn, admitting by his actions its awesome, sweet power for him, and privately have sex with himself (masturbate) with such intensity and imaginative pleasure and power? OK, so he has shame, self-loathing, and sadness afterward. But how does he do both tefillin, teaching Torah, being mekareiv and really davening for others hard and really crying for the churban, and really working on his middos....and masturbating himself with a fantasy that could only mean he (secretly) also worships the beauty and power of those naked shiksas and the act of sex? How does such a contradiction survive in him?

How does it survive in us?
My answer to myself is simple. We learn to lie a little. We lie to others and we lie to ourselves. We'll quit really soon. We won't do it any more when we are twenty....or fifty. Never on Shabbos. Never with masturbation. Etc. All lies, to ourselves. And over time, we learn to lie more and more without even noticing it, just as you cannot see yourself grow.

When we are being good, we feel good about ourselves and we wish we could forget the bad stuff we did last night - we call that a hirhur teshuvah. Really it is just so we do not hate ourselves so badly, but that's OK. We learn not to face it right now by pretending that we are 'forgiven' by Hashem. That way, one persona does not invade the other so much. It gets put off till the next time, if we are lucky.

When we are being 'bad', we wish we could forget how devoted we are to Hashem and His Torah and to our wives and children and to honesty with society - because it just feels so good to do the porn and we really see no way out of it. We know we need it and do not in a million years believe there is really an alternative for us, in the end. We end up 'ignoring' our kedusha during the act. That is lying to ourselves, and again, one persona does not see the other simultaneously. Pretending we are really rotten to the core is a much more comfortable way to act out. Nu. Who wants to hurt so much?

We walk about for years and are tortured inside, for we know the dichotomy we are hiding - we are the dichotomy. But we do not really know what to do. We fight to make one side gain mastery over the other and call that hisgabrus al hayeitzer. And we fall. Then we assume we are horrible Jews, and assume that Hashem agrees with us about that. That mistake is a hard one to shake...(see step 2)

So now about the time-travel dilemma.
When we open up to others under a username (or fake English name in a meeting) and share the entire truth (which most rarely do) about our addiction, we are still hiding our 'good' persona - the real me. It's OK to let them know the horrible dirt - yeah, all of it - as long as they do not know the 'good' persona too well. The two are just incompatible.

Thos who got caught by their wives or children know exactly what I am talking about. They understand why they getting caught was so effectivbe for a time - the desire to use the porn left them as a result of getting both personae dragged into the room at the same time. The horror of getting caught with my pants down by a co-worker, son, daughter, or wife is truly intolerable to anyone who has experienced it. Why?

Because the hypocrisy is mercilessly forced to come to a bitter end. The Time-Space Continuum has ripped asunder. We look frantically for a place to bury ourselves. It's hell.

It is the two Kirks being forced to see eachother by a third party - and only a party who knows both personae can possibly do that. Till that happens, we are all players. Lying a bit about the 'real us' to ourselves and to others.

Some of us insist on solving our problem without bringing the two personae together. Perhaps they are just avoiding the terribly painful end of their hypocrisy, perhaps not. I do not know what is best for another. But in my own case, I got caught, and it still didn't help. After a few weeks I was back at it and it got worse and worse until I couldn;t take it any more. i was begging for someone to rip off my cover and get me real! My wife could not do that, for she does not understand what I am talking about when I describe the desperation to get the sweet porn in my mind and heart and does not understand the allergy to it that I have.

So I needed real meetings - with real addicts. Perverts for decades who chose the path of sobriety because they had no choice. Just like me. People who can hear both sides of me. And I use my real name, wear my normal Jewish outfit, and talk with them freely about my real life.

And that flows out into being real with everybody else in my life, whether they know about my problem, or not.

And that is why so many of us are OK with goyim in meetings, but shrink into a corner when they meet a frum yid. There is a common strong desire to avoid and evade. And I do not blame them, for I had that, too. Here is a guy who can bring them even closer to the true full self! It's more pain to go through. But more healing, too.

Interestingly, I have seen newly recovering program-guys meet people from the meeting in public places just 'out of the blue' and totally ignore them, as if they didn't know them at all. Those guys did not remain sober. I think they may have been shocked by the cross-over from their 'meeting life' into their 'real life'. They were not willing to smile discreetly and say a polite "Hi" to the other guy. Instead, here was trouble - "so get away from me quick." Oy vavoi.

This is precisely why AA has a strong tradition of real anonymity. We do not reveal the identity of anyone else we meet in the rooms to non-members. Ever. But it's not about shame, at all. It's because sharing the secrets of others will not help their recovery at all! Only the truth that they want to share will help them.

Those who just get caught and stay clean out of fear of further humiliation never, ever stay better. Getting humiliated into sobriety does not work, until there is some humility added. Humilty (in hachno'oh to the truth) is the underpinning of the steps.

And that is why 'accountability groups' are nice but will ultimately fail, as long as they are based on avoiding shame - which they can easily become all about.

And that is why opening up to the wife (and remaining consistently open with her) is so very powerful - when done at the right time. It is powerful medicine for my recovery and powerful medicine for the marriage. Honesty there removes yet another layer of hiding from ourselves that has to go to the boards for true freedom.

Sharing my credit card number and address would not do any of these things for me, and neither would pulling up my pant-leg. It's not about compromising my security, nor my anonymity. It's not about getting hurt nor for the sake of being punished for all my wrongs until I can finally be good. This is not Teshuvah and it is not sigufim. It's all and only about being the real me with everyone that I can be, to the extent that I can be without violating the health of my family and others. We do the best we can in that, and ask Hashem to make it work right. And it works, period.


came across this and it really stuck a "cord"
since the misunderstanding with cordnoy i decided to "look him up" on his old threads first of all i think i can understand his language better now knowing where he came from...also that our problems are very similar.again i'm sorry "old man"

sorry everyone for the long post

Gee thanks.

I'm even older now.

My problems are history.....ha, that's a joke....that would mean that I'm dead.

Have you written about our "similar problems"?

B'hatzlachah
My email: thenewme613@hotmail.com
My threads:
GYE Handbook | Gibbor's Insights | GYE FAQ - Thanks Skep and DMS123456789 White Book | Big Book (Alcoholics Anonymous)

If one gives up at the first sign of a struggle, he is really not ready to be successful."
"Tryin' and doin' are two different thin's - tryin' is hopin'; doin' is succeedin'.
"The right thin' to do and the hard thin' to do are usually the same."


Disclaimer: I am not a cheerleader; B"H, there are many on the site. I am here to change myself, and with God's help, by some mistake, I might even help change others.

MY POSTS ARE NOT WRITTEN AS A MODERATOR UNLESS EXPLICITLY STATED.
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