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"Be holy"- search for the holy grail
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TOPIC: "Be holy"- search for the holy grail 22697 Views

Re: "he holy"- search for the holy grail 12 Apr 2009 18:10 #4402

awesome advise! i have called out before but have not internalized it in that way.
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Re: "he holy"- search for the holy grail 12 Apr 2009 18:30 #4405

  • ano nymous
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be holy wrote on 12 Apr 2009 13:21:

i was thinking this morning how unfair it is for me to post on this forum and how my issues shouldn't be posted because my issues are not your issues but then i was thinking just the opposite. everyone here, is here for the same reason, we are trying to get out of an addiction. everyone has fallen because of different reasons but we are all here to break free. Therefore you guys have helped me get this far and are truly the only people i can turn to to help. i am still in therapy with my wife and i can't bring the internet thing up with her. i am to ashamed, and really don't want to go that road. we have kosher internet rimon and my temptation is getting lighter. my issue is that i can't look my wife in the eye because i wish she looked better, and in my mind i want her to dress sexier- while at the same time knowing that she can't and as a kollel yungerliegth it is totally inappropriate. additionally it is demeaning because a man has his torah, and a women has her tznius. seeing other women on the street still is hard for me to control that double take. i know it is lust, but for some reason i just can't let go of it. this obviously is not what this forum is about but you guys have always been there for me in the past and we are not at 5 monthes!! it is the summer and my imagination goes wild when i am on the street..i hope we can get to the bottom of this and i can be the person i can be and give of myself to my wife- a wondering soul.

Be holy, I'm not yet married or even dating, but I believe what you wrote is a common mistake. Tznius is for when your wife goes out into the street (or even in the house when she might be seen). However, tznius has NO place in your bedroom!! Your wife is supposed to make herself attractive for you and by so doing help you fight your battle against the street. It makes me very sad when I hear people say that it is inappropriate for a women to dress in a provocative manner for her husband. Do you remember what the kiyor in the mishkan was made from?
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Re: "he holy"- search for the holy grail 13 Apr 2009 06:24 #4413

true any -but it is easier said than done. we are really animals inside- perhaps my fear is opening that up, or exposing it because i know what i have seen and done in the past. it  is a catch 22, we are given a goof and neshama, it is the test of our lives to activate the right sections of our being at the right times. this addiction  is so deep that it penetrates our soul,leaves us feeling empty and with low self esteem-these factors make it hard to think straight. additionally bais yakov simply does not teach anything when it comes to this-not that they should but, it sort of leaves people like me in a hard place.
  the key is to work on ourselves and ask hashem to send us mercy-the hardest thing in the world is to stop lusting- giving up the physical, to no longer seek the exciting or look for the action,because that is what olam haze is ALL about. we are a nishama and once we internalize that, and that the rbs"o has customized every moment of our lives ,including our y"h -everything becomes so much easier.somehow it is so simple but so hard to obtain.
  on the other hand maybe i am normal and everybody goes through this.......are there any married people who have had any of these thoughts?
with admiration and tfillos that we all deflate our chometz on pesach....
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Re: "he holy"- search for the holy grail 13 Apr 2009 08:51 #4416

  • Ykv_schwartz
I have been checking the forums only sporadically during pesach. Not much time.  But when I saw this discussion, I felt the need the comment. 

Let me begin with what ano has said.  Ano, as you said you are not married and therefore you may not be aware of some of the truths.  But the truth is that tzinuis is in the bedroom as well.  The shulchan devotes an entire siman to hilchos tzinus in the bedroom.  A couple is supposed to be trained before getting married in these areas.  As well, after getting married is important to review and grow in tzunius and kedusha.  Every couple needs to know for themselves at what madreiga they are on.  Also, it is important for a husband whose wife is not so provocative (which is many Jewish Woman, B"H) to not try to expect for more.  There is a lot to say on this topic and the seforim have elaborated for us and given us guidance.  But people should also get personal guidance. 

Be holy, B"H, you have the right perspective.  Everything you wrote is true.  Having the right the perspective is obviously the start. Trying to attain it, as you say, is much more difficult.  You are definitely not alone in your avodah.  But, I have no doubt that if you truly want it, you will get it.  As me says, keep davening.  I have grown tremendously in this area.  This has been a very difficult avodah.  I was open about it with my wife, which made it easier. 

From what I have gathered over the years form comments here and there, I have noticed this is normal.  But let me tell you what worked for me.  Though, I do admit that my issue was not challenging as yours.  Let me try to give a few pointers:

1. you must internalize a very fundamental concept in marriage.  People often want to think that their wife is the most beautiful. But, in truth, you should view your wife as the only woman in the world.  By doing this, you stop comparing your wife to other woman. on shemiras eynayim.  Realizing there is only one, no other woman will tempt you anymore.  You will have no desire to look at a woman for the sake of pleasure(I am living proof of this). 
3.Look at you wife's good attributes. When you become less physical, you become attracted to deeper things.  You become attracted to your wife because of what her body represents, i.e. her neshama.  In other words, you are attracted to her neshama not her body. 
4. Write your wife a love letter.  Sit down, and think about why you love your wife.  Tell her.  Give her affection.   
5.Begin asking yourself the purpose of marital relations.  Understand how it should bring shalom in the bayis. 
6.Learning how to stop lusting ones own wife is a trickier thing to do. We can talk about that another time.

There is a lot more to say.  I am running off to my chol hamoed tiyul with my kids.  You can be in touch with me privately if you want.
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Re: "he holy"- search for the holy grail 13 Apr 2009 09:07 #4418

  • the.guard
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everyone here, is here for the same reason, we are trying to get out of an addiction. everyone has fallen because of different reasons but we are all here to break free.

Be Holy, the common denominator between us all is "addiction to lust"

seeing other women on the street still is hard for me to control that double take. i know it is lust, but for some reason i just can't let go of it. this obviously is not what this forum is about but...

What is the forum about if not this? This is lust. And that is what we are all trying to escape. And guarding our eyes on the street is the "final frontier" of this struggle. Don't think that you are not doing well. You are doing incredibly well. You have stopped all the really bad stuff and are struggling now only with shmiras ainayim on the street. From experience I can tell you that this takes the longest time to gain full control over. But you will get there. You are on the right path and have the right outlook. And I can't really add much more to the amazing advice you've gotten from "Me" and Yaakov" and "Ano"...
Webmaster of - Maintaining Moral Purity in Today's World. We’re here on a quest ; it’s really all a test. Just do your best and G-d will do the rest.
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Re: "he holy"- search for the holy grail 13 Apr 2009 09:50 #4419

thank you everyone!! you all are truly amazing!
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Re: "he holy"- search for the holy grail 14 Apr 2009 05:41 #4431

it is hard to get the emotion moving- i have been living so long in a fake world feeling bad for myself. i am scared to express myself. until now for the past 15 yrs  nearly every moment has been controlled by my addiction. i feel more free than ever before, but over time  i have learnt not to express myself because i was always afraid of where my thoughts where deep seated in my brainor that people would see through to what i have been up to. now i need to express myself and feel love and affection to the ones i should be showing love and passion and companionship to ,but more often find myself blaming them for not being expressive to me- any thoughts on how to get this dormant side of the heart going?
honestly without your support i would be lost- but isn't it amazing what are brains are capable of doing and how much damage we can bring to ourselves?- imagine; if one man can kill 6 million- how much more so one man can build and save!!
  we have the power ,and this website is on the forefront of the battle that will help bring mashiach. as we get weaker and the generations slip lower and lower, hashem also promised us equilibrium- if we want to rise out of the 49 levels of tumah hashem will help us in massive ways- as he did leaving Egypt. our geula will be the same. those who wanted to leave mitzarim were taken out even if they were rishayim. all we need to do at this point is want!! we can succeed against the y"h. we will be taken out of our bondage and redeemed and saved in our days! 
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Re: "Be holy"- search for the holy grail 14 Apr 2009 13:48 #4434

  • aaron4
any thoughts on how to get this dormant side of the heart going?

This depends on your relationship with your wife which may well be linked to the depth of the addiction.  If the addiction has literally controlled your every waking moment then it makes sense that you would not be expressive (not wanting anyone to hear what was really on your mind) and would not have the capacity to work on your relationships or other areas of life.  You had no time to devote to these areas.  The first thing I'd suggest is thanking Hashem for leading you here - this is exactly the right place to be!  Also, don't be so hard on yourself.  After reading some of your posts and knowing that you've gone almost 6 months without a fall, I can't accept that this accurately describes your situation.  The Y"H does not have you in chains!  And therefore you do have the ability to work on other things.

As Ykv said, write your wife a love letter.  Think about where you'd be if you weren't married.  With far fewer responsibilities, can you imagine how much harder it would be to overcome the addiction?  It sounds like you generally get along with her - that's a huge Bracha!  You have the foundation on which to build a magnificent emotional bond with a life partner who is there with you and for you!  Give her everything you have - your money, your heart and your time.  It is an investment that will yield tremendous benefits - she will respond and give you more than you can imagine in return.  You'll find new kochos in you that you never knew you had.  You'll find yourself on a path of true, positive growth, not stagnation.  You want to be expressive?  Express!  Use your own words, however inadequate they may sound to you.  She will encourage and support every small step you take and she will recognize and acknowledge tiny positive steps that no one else would ever see because they don't know you as well as your partner.  Spend time together and get to know her even better – it will be well worth it.
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Re: "Be holy"- search for the holy grail 14 Apr 2009 14:38 #4435

thank you - that is what i will do right now. i flower simply aren't going to cut it this yom tov! im lo achshav aimasay!! this is a tzorech yom tov, if i ever heard of one. thank you- i need to feel like things are good more often.
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Re: "Be holy"- search for the holy grail 16 Apr 2009 21:45 #4448

hi .. i am writing from a very difficult place. everything was going fine, perhaps the stress of yom tov and having female guests , combined with the warmer weather did it. but i acted out twice and surfed for about an hour but didn't finish the job. now i feel i broken my streak and will descend to my previous level. i am trying to stay up beat and happy but i know i could have controlled myself and didn't. i fear what my y"h will try and pull on me now. will it be how big of an aveira, or you will never  truly be free, or will he spin my whole life out of control in vicious cycle. i hate this! i want my mind and clarity back! no pictures or disgusting thoughts- i want my kesher to hkb"h to never be broken! where do i go now? what do i do? he has a way in......
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Re: "Be holy"- search for the holy grail 16 Apr 2009 22:21 #4449

  • the.guard
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I'm preparing a handbook of the Yesodos in this struggle. Once the handbook is ready, I will give it out to everyone and I hope it will help us all a lot.. Meanwhile, as an emergency measure for our dear Battle-worthy comrade-in-arms: Be Holy, I copied below a few of the yesodos that are relevant now and that will IY"H appear in the handbook.... Many of these yesodos come from the wonderful warriors of our forum over the past year, maybe some of it even came from you!

Think about the beautiful words of Tehhilim and Hallel. Could David Hamelech have written these words of complete dependence and faith in Hashem if he hadn’t been running from enemies all his life? As a youngster, he was an outcast of his brothers, being from another mother. His own parents seemed to have left him, as he writes “Ki Avi Ve’imi azavuni, Va’Hashem Ya’asfeini”. He had to fight off bears and lions while shepherding his flocks, and the tremendous faith he gained from these experiences enabled him to fell the mighty Goliath on faith alone. And when he was anointed king by Shmuel Hanavi, his troubles only began to intensify. He had to run away from Shaul countless times to save his life, and he had enemies all throughout his life. And when we read the beautiful words of tehilim, we can see how through these experiences, David hamelech reached the highest levels of complete and absolute dependence on Hashem. And if David Hamelech had not fallen in the sin with Bat Sheva, could we have ever learned what sincere teshuvah really is? (See Kapitle 51). A Tzadik takes his biggest obstacles and falls - and he uses them to create gems in the crown of Hashem’s honor!

The notion that we must always succeed actually turns us into easy prey for our Yetzer Hara. He uses our good qualities, our constant yearning for perfection, and turns it against us by trying to get us to feel down when we had a fall!

It is important to keep in mind after a fall, that even if a person could have possibly done better, the sin is measured according to how difficult the test was. If he was almost an oiness, the sin is that much smaller. But it is not at all like the Yetzer Hara wants you to think, that you're worthless and hopeless.

In this struggle, it is never “all or nothing”. When an army goes out to battle, do they always win? Are there never casualties? People injured? The Pasuk says: “There is no Tzadik on earth that does only good and never sins” (Koheles 7:20).

And it is brought down in the sefer, menucha v'kedusha, written by a talmid of R' Chaim Volozhin, that a person who sins his whole life can still be considered a zaddik, as long as he never gives up and always continues to fight. We like to think of success in terms of results.  But Hashem looks at our efforts, not the results.

The Chozeh Milublin, The Beer Mayim Chaim, R' Hershele of Ziditshov, R' Tzadok Hacohen and other tzadikim all said: When a person feels "I blew it already - I messed up this time, and still he doesn't give up, he keeps trying to salvage what he could - ignoring the fact that he already failed (R' Tvi Meir calls it "Kum B'palgus Laila" in the words of the Zohar Hakadosh) then the Nachas Ruach that he makes for Hashem, is greater than, when one is completely successful.

Perhaps the greatest illustration of this, is by Yoseph Hatzadik. The gemoroh (in sotah 36b) says, that Yoseph actually came in to Potifar's house to sin (as Rashi brings) Then the Gemoroh says that he actually spilled seed at the time, thereby losing Ten Shevatim that were supposed to come from him. And, when after all that, he held back from sinning, he became the Merkava for Midas Hayesod and one of the seven "Royem".

R' Tzadok and other tzadikim explain that this is what really constituted the nisoyon. The menuval said to Yoseph: Don't you see that you already messed everything up. And don't you realize what a goner you are. The Shevatim have already poskined that you are chayav misa, including the Shechina Hakidosha in their Beis Din. [Even Yitzchak Avinu who knew where Yoseph is, didn't tell.] Nobody cares about you any more. You're lost and cut off in this world and the next. And now you failed so badly. Face the facts, it's over!

But Yoseph Hatzadik said no! I don't care about anything - not even about being a tzadik. The only thing that concerns me is: What do I need to do at this moment?  What does Avinu Shebashamaim want from me right now? It was in that zechus that he was zocheh to everything. That is why he is called Hatzaddik. And that is why Krias yam suf was in his zechus as Chazal say "Hayam raah vayonos - ma raah? arono shel Yoseph!"

After a fall, we must look at the past as out of our hands, and whatever happened had to happen that way by divine will. Hashem wanted me to have to get back up again and start again from scratch. He wanted me to learn from my falls and make better fences and take more extreme steps.

The "Beer Mayim Chayim" says that, in the army when they would want to test a great soldier to see if he's fit to be a general, they would put him on a wild horse that it's impossible to not be thrown off from. The whole test was to see how fast he can get back up after he was brutally thrown down and wounded. That, he says, is the way Hashem tests His "Special Force" soldiers. Sometimes Hashem brings us to fall only to see how fast we'll get back up and strike the beast a fatal blow. That's the name of the game!

The Lechevitcher Rebbe (a student of R' Shlomo of Karlin) once went as far as to say that even if a person just killed someone and the knife is still dripping with blood, but he feels can't stand up and pray Mincha (the afternoon service) with all his strength and with all his heart, then he has not yet tasted from the waters of Chassidus! In other words, Chassidus taught that there is no such thing as ever giving up. Even if we stumbled in the worst sins, we need to put the past out of our minds and start again from this very moment as if we were just born.

Don’t despair! Hashem had much Nachas Ruach from your spiritual successes, but he wanted you to take it to the next level and therefore gave you these pitfalls, even though he knew you would fall. What makes a person great is his ability to get back up, despite all his falls. With some determination you will come out of this with a much closer Kesher to Hashem than you had even more than when you were doing great before!

Webmaster of - Maintaining Moral Purity in Today's World. We’re here on a quest ; it’s really all a test. Just do your best and G-d will do the rest.
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Re: "Be holy"- search for the holy grail 17 Apr 2009 04:55 #4450

thank you guard. a few things really hit home. 1. the purple color is a color of royalty. 2. the same thoughts of dovid where running through my mind. 3. i had dream last night. i was on a farm sanding behind a coral and these horses were speeding by, until they stopped and kicked the pig- starnge but then lions and tigers all came out of the wilderness as did the farmer with his tranquilizer gun. the wild animals were to many to fight off until friends and people i knew came to help fight the wild beasts off. this can be taken in many ways.
the gedar is what gives us security when it is needed.
the pig is the tumah which must be kicked and beaten.
the wild beasts(ie y"h) are there to destroy us but we are always being protected by our shepard.
when things get to crazy hashem sends more help to save and protect us
we must feel comfort even in bad times by seeing people we know and our friends- they comfort and inspire us.
he y"h has me now- but only if i let him rule me. i only have one king and the y"h is not my master!! "ani avdicha ben amusecha"- only hashem rules me in any way he sees fit. in sin or in just, he is still my king no matter what!! i beg of you hashem with tears in my eyes- i want to be holy, i am sorry it is below your servant to bring himself to such lowly acts. i never want to feel far from you and wish i could turn back time - i don't want to feel this pain again. i am sorry for hurting you and causing you pain and suffering, aside from the damage in heaven- i still love you and hope you can forgive me. please strengthen me and all of us and if a test arises again please let me be prepared to face the ugly y"h and triumph over him.
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Re: "Be holy"- search for the holy grail 17 Apr 2009 08:59 #4451

  • me
Be Holy,

We never want to fall, and we do everything that we can to prevent it, BUT, once we have fallen, we immediately shift into another gear. This gear is a speed that the y"h can't keep up with.

It is called: Nefilah L'tzorech Aliyah.

Many many times "they" (Min Hashamayim) throw us down, but know that it is for the purpose of Aliyah. For you to turn it into an Aliyah. At this very moment, you are standing in a different place than you where a few days ago.  Completely forget about the y"h. You are now standing before a hill, where if you choose to go up the hill, this will mean that your nefilah was L'tzorech Aliyah.
  You are standing at a place right now, where if you choose to go up....without looking back, then you will have turned your entire nefila into what it was meant to be... the catalyst for you to jettison into the realms of kedusha. Into something that you could not have done previously.

Of course to jettison away from this place, you will need to prepare some fuel for the engines. Only you can do this for search for the right types of fuel that will completely elevate you from this place and to a much higher realm.

You mentioned in your post that before/during your fall, you had done some surfing on the web, does this mean that you have at your access open internet? If the answer is yes, than I do know personally that to rectify this problem,(completely), creates an unbelievable powerful fuel...the kind that F16's use. If you still have access to "P", or anything else that acts on you in the same manner, than I can promise you that by taking the "risk", i.e (having complete emunah in Hashem that no harm will befall you), and removing this/these mikshalim, you will have created an unblievably explosive fuel that will remove you from this place and take you into the highest heights. 

R' Nachman says that absolutely NOTHING can stand in the way of Ratzon. It is in itself very very cleansing to be completely honest with yourself, and before Hashem. Do you really WANT to leave this place, this place of lusting, women, summer time down the street etc.? There is no "wrong" answer, there is only YOUR answer. Once you find out "your" truth, than you can see where you are really standing, and then have a better knowingness in which way to go. It all starts with pure honesty. Is it really your Ratzon to leave this life of lusting? If not, then ask yourself....why?  why do I want to continue to lust, what is it doing for me? What purpose is it providing me?

Search for your truth, and Hashem will help you.
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Re: "Be holy"- search for the holy grail 17 Apr 2009 11:59 #4453

  • Ykv_schwartz
Rav Nachman says getting hirhurei zenus is a great zechus.  The reason is that it gives a person the opportunity for teshuva and proper tikun for the past aveiros.  He says that so many people get down when they get these thoughts and feel bad about themselves.  But these thoughts are there in order for a person to chase them away and be zoche for teshuva.  So just realize that your current challenges are intended for you to attain teshuvah shleima.  Knowing this can prevent unnecessary hindrances and should invigorate you for eternal growth.
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Re: "Be holy"- search for the holy grail 17 Apr 2009 13:20 #4454

  • me
Be Holy,

  I was thinking that maybe we should change your name from "Be" Holy to......"AM" Holy.!

To "ME",  "Be" sounds somewhat like "I want to be", but I am not there yet".

But "AM" Holy, this truth means that you ARE already Holy, and therefore instead of trying to get something that seems not within hands reach, you are really only shomering on that which you already have. The holiness of of Yid.
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