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Here we go - Details about JIP
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TOPIC: Here we go - Details about JIP 10578 Views

Re: Here we go - Details about JIP 18 Mar 2010 03:31 #58766

  • jewinpain
Cuz chasidim go in mikva tiny kids, chasidim have tishen, dark shulesh sidas torah, closer life in some areas, less open to sex in general, all of the above adds on
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Re: Here we go - Details about JIP 18 Mar 2010 03:43 #58768

  • 123.trying.123
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JIP just want to say that you're my hero...

Keep going... and I'll know that it is possible to get out of a mess like this....

Peace and Love to all of you guys.... :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
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Re: Here we go - Details about JIP 18 Mar 2010 03:44 #58770

  • jewinpain
Have a peacefull night urself, its almost morning,
Btw did u send me a google invite?
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Re: Here we go - Details about JIP 18 Mar 2010 03:50 #58772

Tried-123 wrote on 18 Mar 2010 03:29:

BruceWayne wrote on 18 Mar 2010 03:18:

OK, I just have to bring it up.

Why is it that so many people that I know who grew up in chassidish environments went through absolute hell?
Is it something about the chassidim or do I just know a lot of messed up people? I'm betting it's the former.

Yeah, I said it.





I think Bards answer would be:
It may be a problem but it is not my problem...

I hope this topic is not Loshon Harah/Motzie Shem Rah.... Is it?


NO, and saying that it is would only perpetuate the problem because you'd be protecting the people who do this. This is the problem with dogmatic thinking.

P.S. It IS your problem. Something about Kol yisrael arevim something-or-another.
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Re: Here we go - Details about JIP 18 Mar 2010 04:10 #58778

  • silentbattle
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Whoa - I agree that dealing with this issue is important. I have several close friends who've been hurt by abuse, in one form or another.

Being aware of the issues, and protecting ourselves and those around us, is important. So is protecting klal yisroel as a whole. But discussing this on an open forum, and pointing fingers at spcific groups within klal yisroel, isn't accomplishing that.
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Re: Here we go - Details about JIP 18 Mar 2010 04:19 #58781

  • silentbattle
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First of all, JIP - You're right - it is hard to remember on a practical level, that hashem really loves us, etc. But the key to remember is that on the deepest, truest level, there is a huge fat bank account filled with the realest currency ever, that's just for you, and can never be taken away by anyone! By the way, R Dessler gives a fascinating explanation (from more than one angle) of "schar mitzva b'hai almah leka," in several of the first pieces in chelek aleph. If you like, I can look up the exact page.


If you meant that Hashem never gives a person a Nisoyan that can not be overcome...
Well R' Tzodok disagrees and Rav Dessler writes that there is a Nekuda beyond which you have no Bechira.... Sorry again


I agree - and I think that when we say that hashem never gives us a nisayon we can't overcome, that's true, too - the question is, what's my nisayon right now?

Tried-123 wrote on 18 Mar 2010 00:52:

If you meant to say that Hashem doesn't give people unbearable pain.... It is simply not true.... Sorry


"Unbearable" means "cannot be borne." And you are bearing it - it's just very difficult. It may feel unbearable at times. But that's not quite the same thing. I am in no way minimizing your pain. But when we sue certain words to describe our pain, we can come to believe them. We have an incredible ability to convince ourselves to see things in a certain way - and no matter how painful a situation is, we can find a way to see it as being even worse. Or (to some extent), better.
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Re: Here we go - Details about JIP 23 Mar 2010 13:20 #59382

  • kutan
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JIP,
Your story in the daily email sent me here.
I know other people that were molested.
I know your troubles.
It happens in all circles unfortunately.
Thank you for sharing it, and for dealing with it.
Its wonderful that you found GYE, and that you are part of our chevra.
kutan
Rashi, Breishis (10:25)
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Re: Here we go - Details about JIP 23 Mar 2010 13:22 #59383

  • jewinpain
Thanks kutan for the kind words
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Re: Here we go - Details about JIP 23 Mar 2010 16:31 #59403

  • Yosef Hatzadik
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commando612 wrote on 18 Mar 2010 02:04:

As the attitude handbook mentioned, Rav Tzadok Hakohen teaches that Hashem does sometimes give us tests which we can't pass. To answer your question, the exact place is in Sefer Tzidkas Hatzadik paragraph 43. He says there that sometimes we're given a test that we can't pass, and we're considered a complete "Oneis" and not punished for it. He concludes, "but a person can't say to himself that he's reached that stage, because maybe he does have the strength to pass the test".


Rabbi Matissyahu Salamon Shlita explains the minhag of Tashlich on Rosh Hashanah in a similar vein. he says that even though we have many remembrances for the akeidas Yitzchok (- the shofar is to remind the z'chus of eilo shel Yitzchok), there is one more important point to be made.

The midrash tells us that on the way to the akeida Avraham encountered a river that was obstructing his path. [It was the Yetzer Horah disguised in the form of a river.] He tried going through it. when he reached a depth of his nostrils he couldnt continue further, so he cried out to Hashem "Hoshiah Hashem ki bo'u mayim ad nafesh!" Hashem accepted his tefilla and the 'river' vanished.

Rabbi Salamon says: We must always know that there are some nisyonos that a person DOES NOT HAVE THE ABILITY TO OVERCOME! The test is not whether you will do the mitzva. Rather the test is "What will you do when you cannot do Hashem's will?" will you daven to Hashem and stay close to him, or will you just give up? What Hashem will choose to do is not our concern. He may remove the obstacles from our path - as in the case of Avraham Avinu, or he may leave it the way it is. Either way WE PASSED THE TEST!!!!!! The rest is unimportant.
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Re: Here we go - Details about JIP 23 Mar 2010 16:41 #59409

  • Yosef Hatzadik
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BruceWayne wrote on 18 Mar 2010 03:28:

Why is it more with the chassidim?

And I don't disagree that it's a problem in general, but why the chassidim?


A famous educator whom I am close to and is very involved in both the chassidish and other communities told me that from his vantage point of view there is no divide between the different segments of Klal Yisroel. They all share the same Yetzer Hora, the same trials, roughly the same percentage of messed up kids and drop-outs (if we can call it so...).




{I think that since some expect the chassidim to be more 'holy', more protected, it sounds worse when such a story is heard coming from the chassidic side of the isle.}
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Re: Here we go - Details about JIP 23 Mar 2010 20:34 #59431

  • jewinpain
yosala, he might be right, but my therapist holds different & i do believe him as he sees this all day long for the last 8 years
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Re: Here we go - Details about JIP 25 Mar 2010 21:46 #59649

  • 123.trying.123
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Yosef Hatzadik wrote on 23 Mar 2010 16:41:


there is no divide between the different segments of Klal Yisroel. They all share the same Yetzer Hora, the same trials, roughly the same percentage of messed up kids and drop-outs (if we can call it so...).


Dear JIP hope things are OK by you (Well... OK is relative... But I hope things are moving forward....)

Peace and Love....

Just a footnote:

R' Matisyahu Solomon Mashgiach of Lakewood once said that "Drop Out" is the wrong way to describe these boys. They didn't simply "drop out"... He said that "Pushed Out" is more accurate.....

V'hameivin Yuvin
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Re: Here we go - Details about JIP 25 Mar 2010 21:48 #59650

  • jewinpain
123
Tell rabbi solomon that I just love him to pieces he's soooo right
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Re: Here we go - Details about JIP 25 Mar 2010 22:11 #59652

  • Yosef Hatzadik
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Tried-123 wrote on 25 Mar 2010 21:46:

Yosef Hatzadik wrote on 23 Mar 2010 16:41:


there is no divide between the different segments of Klal Yisroel. They all share the same Yetzer Hora, the same trials, roughly the same percentage of messed up kids and drop-outs (if we can call it so...).


Dear JIP hope things are OK by you (Well... OK is relative... But I hope things are moving forward....)

Peace and Love....

Just a footnote:

R' Matisyahu Solomon Mashgiach of Lakewood once said that "Drop Out" is the wrong way to describe these boys. They didn't simply "drop out"... He said that "Pushed Out" is more accurate.....

V'hameivin Yuvin



BTW, Rabbi Matisyahu Salamon told ME that he also finds that there is no divide...
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Re: Here we go - Details about JIP 25 Mar 2010 23:49 #59661

  • 123.trying.123
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:o Uh Oh...

JIP has a problem...

Yes R' Matisyahu or No R' Matisyahu..... ??? ??? ??? ???

OK....OK.... I was just kidding
:D :D ;D ;D
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