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No soldier left behind - Kol Yisrael Areivem
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Re: No soldier left behind - Kol Yisrael Areivem 02 Jan 2018 15:23 #324572

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tzaddik212 wrote on 01 Jan 2018 15:25:
Hi Bear.

Rav nachmans saying is If I Believe that i can be Mekalkel.  Well it is not necessary for me to believe that i can be Mekalkel. The Seforim Hakdoshim speak about that a yid has a Neshomo that is always pure, and wont ever be Mekulkel. But Rav Nachman says that if youre in such despair, and you believe this negative thoguht that your able to be Mekalkel, then you shall believ as well that you can be Metaken. but in reality there is no place for a Yid to be Mekalkel. This is my interpretation of Rav Nachman

It’s a great chasidishe Torah, but what are you saying practically? Practically many of us have messed things up tremendously. Practically, we have to realize that acting out destroys and that it takes a tremendous effort to repair.

Yes, maybe our inner soul can never be damaged, but how is that relevant to someone who needs to stop acting out? 

Re: No soldier left behind - Kol Yisrael Areivem 02 Jan 2018 16:17 #324574

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It wont help people to stop acting out, nor would the Vort of Rav Nachman stop someone from actingout. what i was trying to say, is that Rav Nachman is saying is an inspiration to start working on ourselves, it is to ignite the fire of hope, the fire of growth, and to trash the Yiush and despair. And Rav Nachman is saying 2 points.  1. That a person never if fully Mekulkel, and that every Yid has an inner fire of Kedushah, and he has the capacity to tap into this, and to engulf his whole mind body and soul in this fire, and to be a true Eved Hashem 24/7.   2. Even if you think that there is no return from your despair, and you youre dumped for the rest of your life, and it stems from your belief that you can be Mekalkel, then have the Belief that you can be Metaken. anyways it becomes to analytical, and lets leave all the Lomdos for the Beis Medrosh, and you have a sober 24.
Check out my recovery story at: guardyoureyes.com/forum/2-What-Works-for-Me/323855-Re-What-got-me-to-day-92#323859
Feel free to send me an Email at: zestful718@hotmail.com

Re: No soldier left behind - Kol Yisrael Areivem 02 Jan 2018 16:19 #324575

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Stop, stopping acting out, Start living.
Check out my recovery story at: guardyoureyes.com/forum/2-What-Works-for-Me/323855-Re-What-got-me-to-day-92#323859
Feel free to send me an Email at: zestful718@hotmail.com

Re: No soldier left behind - Kol Yisrael Areivem 02 Jan 2018 16:54 #324580

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tzaddik212 wrote on 02 Jan 2018 16:17:
It wont help people to stop acting out, nor would the Vort of Rav Nachman stop someone from actingout. what i was trying to say, is that Rav Nachman is saying is an inspiration to start working on ourselves, it is to ignite the fire of hope, the fire of growth, and to trash the Yiush and despair. And Rav Nachman is saying 2 points.  1. That a person never if fully Mekulkel, and that every Yid has an inner fire of Kedushah, and he has the capacity to tap into this, and to engulf his whole mind body and soul in this fire, and to be a true Eved Hashem 24/7.   2. Even if you think that there is no return from your despair, and you youre dumped for the rest of your life, and it stems from your belief that you can be Mekalkel, then have the Belief that you can be Metaken. anyways it becomes to analytical, and lets leave all the Lomdos for the Beis Medrosh, and you have a sober 24.

Personally, I recovered (or began concrete recovery steps) only after I gave up.
My email: thenewme613@hotmail.com
My threads:
GYE Handbook | Gibbor's Insights | GYE FAQ - Thanks Skep and DMS123456789 White Book | Big Book (Alcoholics Anonymous)

If one gives up at the first sign of a struggle, he is really not ready to be successful."
"Tryin' and doin' are two different thin's - tryin' is hopin'; doin' is succeedin'.
"The right thin' to do and the hard thin' to do are usually the same."


Disclaimer: I am not a cheerleader; B"H, there are many on the site. I am here to change myself, and with God's help, by some mistake, I might even help change others.

MY POSTS ARE NOT WRITTEN AS A MODERATOR UNLESS EXPLICITLY STATED.

Re: No soldier left behind - Kol Yisrael Areivem 02 Jan 2018 17:00 #324581

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Well they say that hitting bottom, is the foundation of recovery, and as deeper the bottom is, the stronger the recovery is. 
It is such a Paradox, that the Negative experience of hitting bottom, should have such a positive effect of recovery. It teaches me the meaning of:  כל מה דעביד רחמנא לטב עביד
Check out my recovery story at: guardyoureyes.com/forum/2-What-Works-for-Me/323855-Re-What-got-me-to-day-92#323859
Feel free to send me an Email at: zestful718@hotmail.com

Re: No soldier left behind - Kol Yisrael Areivem 03 Jan 2018 06:20 #324625

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cordnoy wrote on 02 Jan 2018 16:54:

tzaddik212 wrote on 02 Jan 2018 16:17:
It wont help people to stop acting out, nor would the Vort of Rav Nachman stop someone from actingout. what i was trying to say, is that Rav Nachman is saying is an inspiration to start working on ourselves, it is to ignite the fire of hope, the fire of growth, and to trash the Yiush and despair. And Rav Nachman is saying 2 points.  1. That a person never if fully Mekulkel, and that every Yid has an inner fire of Kedushah, and he has the capacity to tap into this, and to engulf his whole mind body and soul in this fire, and to be a true Eved Hashem 24/7.   2. Even if you think that there is no return from your despair, and you youre dumped for the rest of your life, and it stems from your belief that you can be Mekalkel, then have the Belief that you can be Metaken. anyways it becomes to analytical, and lets leave all the Lomdos for the Beis Medrosh, and you have a sober 24.

Personally, I recovered (or began concrete recovery steps) only after I gave up.

if you mean you gave up hoping to do it yourself without Hashems help and you gave it over to Hashem fine ,but if you mean yiush that theres no way youll get better even with hashems help,well  it may have worked for you but we are  taught thats wrong and usualy someone who experiences  that  type of giving up starts going down down ..., and if YOU did get up , maybe you had a special zechus from a bubbe, thats what i think ,not trying to step on anyones toes. 
 if i may add my 2 cents in Rav Nachmans ZTL statement  if you BELIEVE that you can be mekakel , ,BELIEVE that you can also be mesaken. whats that mean ,why when i do an aveira  c"v do i feel bad?because  i BELIEVE whats written in the Torah sources, a  sin IS mekalkel , whether the spiritual worlds , MY neshama, it brings tuma to this world , its mekalkel my relationship with HaKodosh Baruch hu...,so i feel sad BECAUSE i BELIEVE  whats written  that sin is mekalkel,so BELIEVE inTHE SAME TORAH SOURCES that mitzvos can be mesaken! TORAH is mesaken , MITZVOS is mesaken , VIDUI is mesaken, dont just BELIEVE -have emunah-in the kilkol  matters ,but also have emuna- BELIEF  that you have the power to fix up!!
the yidden  in the first beis hamikdash  commited the 3 cardinal sins ,avoda zara , gilui arayos ,and shifichas damim, and the navi was sent to tell the yidden do teshuva , dont say teshuva wont help ,it will help...whats going on , nowadays when someone does a cheit, he has no problem believing that teshuva will help , his problem is  to DO TESHUVA, but if he DOES teshuva , of course teshuva will help, but the yidden in the time of the beis hamikdash didnt believe that teshuva will help, so the navi was sent to tell the yidden that teshuva WILL help, whats going on?the meforshim  (to my memory ,to my memory,[:smile:] )give  an answer
1. that they knew who Hashem is  and how exalted Hashem is  and to sin to such an exalted King  cannot have forgivness
2. they knew what a necleur destructive power a cheit is , and how much it literaly destroys ,how can teshuva help? there fore the navi had to be sent toencourage the yidden teshuva does help.
and the sme idea , if you believe that you can mekalkel , please believe that you CAN be mesken .hatzlacha

לב  טהור   ברא   לי   אלקים , ורוח  נכון    חדש  בקרבי

  to all my friends who heeded my request  to be so generous and give me a negative karma  for the sake of me acquiring       
                                                . humility ,i humbly  thank you                                                                                                 

Re: No soldier left behind - Kol Yisrael Areivem 03 Jan 2018 12:36 #324632

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ieeyc wrote on 03 Jan 2018 06:20:

cordnoy wrote on 02 Jan 2018 16:54:

tzaddik212 wrote on 02 Jan 2018 16:17:
It wont help people to stop acting out, nor would the Vort of Rav Nachman stop someone from actingout. what i was trying to say, is that Rav Nachman is saying is an inspiration to start working on ourselves, it is to ignite the fire of hope, the fire of growth, and to trash the Yiush and despair. And Rav Nachman is saying 2 points.  1. That a person never if fully Mekulkel, and that every Yid has an inner fire of Kedushah, and he has the capacity to tap into this, and to engulf his whole mind body and soul in this fire, and to be a true Eved Hashem 24/7.   2. Even if you think that there is no return from your despair, and you youre dumped for the rest of your life, and it stems from your belief that you can be Mekalkel, then have the Belief that you can be Metaken. anyways it becomes to analytical, and lets leave all the Lomdos for the Beis Medrosh, and you have a sober 24.

Personally, I recovered (or began concrete recovery steps) only after I gave up.

if you mean you gave up hoping to do it yourself without Hashems help and you gave it over to Hashem fine ,but if you mean yiush that theres no way youll get better even with hashems help,well  it may have worked for you but we are  taught thats wrong and usualy someone who experiences  that  type of giving up starts going down down ..., and if YOU did get up , maybe you had a special zechus from a bubbe, thats what i think ,not trying to step on anyones toes. 
 if i may add my 2 cents in Rav Nachmans ZTL statement  if you BELIEVE that you can be mekakel , ,BELIEVE that you can also be mesaken. whats that mean ,why when i do an aveira  c"v do i feel bad?because  i BELIEVE whats written in the Torah sources, a  sin IS mekalkel , whether the spiritual worlds , MY neshama, it brings tuma to this world , its mekalkel my relationship with HaKodosh Baruch hu...,so i feel sad BECAUSE i BELIEVE  whats written  that sin is mekalkel,so BELIEVE inTHE SAME TORAH SOURCES that mitzvos can be mesaken! TORAH is mesaken , MITZVOS is mesaken , VIDUI is mesaken, dont just BELIEVE -have emunah-in the kilkol  matters ,but also have emuna- BELIEF  that you have the power to fix up!!
the yidden  in the first beis hamikdash  commited the 3 cardinal sins ,avoda zara , gilui arayos ,and shifichas damim, and the navi was sent to tell the yidden do teshuva , dont say teshuva wont help ,it will help...whats going on , nowadays when someone does a cheit, he has no problem believing that teshuva will help , his problem is  to DO TESHUVA, but if he DOES teshuva , of course teshuva will help, but the yidden in the time of the beis hamikdash didnt believe that teshuva will help, so the navi was sent to tell the yidden that teshuva WILL help, whats going on?the meforshim  (to my memory ,to my memory,[:smile:] )give  an answer
1. that they knew who Hashem is  and how exalted Hashem is  and to sin to such an exalted King  cannot have forgivness
2. they knew what a necleur destructive power a cheit is , and how much it literaly destroys ,how can teshuva help? there fore the navi had to be sent toencourage the yidden teshuva does help.
and the sme idea , if you believe that you can mekalkel , please believe that you CAN be mesken .hatzlacha

No, I'm not smart enough, nor stupid enough to know what did it. But yes, after so many years I had given up - yiush as you would call it, and that is when I began workin' the steps and attendin' meetings. No, I did not pray to God; i had been supposedly doin' that for years, but I didn't/don't really know Him.
My email: thenewme613@hotmail.com
My threads:
GYE Handbook | Gibbor's Insights | GYE FAQ - Thanks Skep and DMS123456789 White Book | Big Book (Alcoholics Anonymous)

If one gives up at the first sign of a struggle, he is really not ready to be successful."
"Tryin' and doin' are two different thin's - tryin' is hopin'; doin' is succeedin'.
"The right thin' to do and the hard thin' to do are usually the same."


Disclaimer: I am not a cheerleader; B"H, there are many on the site. I am here to change myself, and with God's help, by some mistake, I might even help change others.

MY POSTS ARE NOT WRITTEN AS A MODERATOR UNLESS EXPLICITLY STATED.

Re: No soldier left behind - Kol Yisrael Areivem 03 Jan 2018 13:23 #324633

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No, I'm not smart enough, nor stupid enough to know what did it. But yes, after so many years I had given up - yiush as you would call it, and that is when I began workin' the steps and attendin' meetings. No, I did not pray to God; i had been supposedly doin' that for years, but I didn't/don't really know Him.

well Hashem knew which soldier could handle which  job ,  because  i probably c"v would of had a nervous breakdown  or worse if i was brought to that situation. BH Rabbi Avigdor Miller ZTL introduced me to G-d i think a few other rebbiem ZTL not so famous .

לב  טהור   ברא   לי   אלקים , ורוח  נכון    חדש  בקרבי

  to all my friends who heeded my request  to be so generous and give me a negative karma  for the sake of me acquiring       
                                                . humility ,i humbly  thank you                                                                                                 

Re: No soldier left behind - Kol Yisrael Areivem 03 Jan 2018 15:40 #324640

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You can be (are) a erlicha yid even if you don't feel H in every step in your life, as long as you believe in him & try to do what he wants you to do.
There are people who FEEL hashem is with them & there are people who don't. (I remember when I was like 15 years old, I was in shul on yom kiper & I saw people crying, I was so jealous... I was thinking what did I do wrong that I don't feel like I wanna cry... I was asking hashem for a good year & that he should forgive me but I never felt that he's here)

Re: No soldier left behind - Kol Yisrael Areivem 03 Jan 2018 15:56 #324641

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I think you are referring to 2 different types of yiush:
You have to give up from thinking that you alone can handle this, you have to realize that the addiction is stronger than you & you can do nothing about it. But from the other side you can have hope that other things methods etc. cam still help you. (If you give up & think that nothing will work for you why should you even try?)
I think this will fit in very well in r nachman's agenda... From one side you should believe that you have a way out, but on the other hand he's talking a lot from bitul hayesh - believing that you're nothing & all you have is from hashem...

Re: No soldier left behind - Kol Yisrael Areivem 03 Jan 2018 16:20 #324642

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youcan wrote on 03 Jan 2018 15:56:
I think you are referring to 2 different types of yiush:
You have to give up from thinking that you alone can handle this, you have to realize that the addiction is stronger than you & you can do nothing about it. But from the other side you can have hope that other things methods etc. cam still help you. (If you give up & think that nothing will work for you why should you even try?)
I think this will fit in very well in r nachman's agenda... From one side you should believe that you have a way out, but on the other hand he's talking a lot from bitul hayesh - believing that you're nothing & all you have is from hashem...

I am not discussin' rav nachman's agenda; I know nothin' about it and it doesn't interest me in the slightest. 

I am discussin' my recovery. I gave up....many times. I had no hope. I was at the point that I had no way out and when I was told by others that the steps lead to recovery, I took it - not out of hope, but rather because I had nothin' else to do.
My email: thenewme613@hotmail.com
My threads:
GYE Handbook | Gibbor's Insights | GYE FAQ - Thanks Skep and DMS123456789 White Book | Big Book (Alcoholics Anonymous)

If one gives up at the first sign of a struggle, he is really not ready to be successful."
"Tryin' and doin' are two different thin's - tryin' is hopin'; doin' is succeedin'.
"The right thin' to do and the hard thin' to do are usually the same."


Disclaimer: I am not a cheerleader; B"H, there are many on the site. I am here to change myself, and with God's help, by some mistake, I might even help change others.

MY POSTS ARE NOT WRITTEN AS A MODERATOR UNLESS EXPLICITLY STATED.

Re: No soldier left behind - Kol Yisrael Areivem 07 Jan 2018 05:20 #324847

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bear wrote on 10 Dec 2017 20:10:
I had a fall recently. I was thinking of what I can do to help motivate me. 

On Shabbas we read that Yosef was about to sin with Potiphars wife, but seeing the image of his father led him to stop. The image of his father reminded him of some of his reasons to fight. I think the idea is that, if you have something as an anchor that can help you stay on track it can really push you through a difficult test. I assume the anchor can be your family, the great reward you will receive for abstaining, or something else that can keep you fighting even when your are very enticed. 

For the next 4 week including today, my fighting will be in the Merit that Hashem protect the Chayalim. The Chayalim do so much, and they are willing to sacrifice so much. I should at least be willing to sacrifice some forbidden pleasures for four weeks in their merit. For the next month the Chayalim are my anchor.

Thank God, I have not fallen the past four weeks. I think the idea of having an anchor especially one that involves something other than just myself really helped. My anchor for the Next four weeks will be that my fighting will be in the merit that Hashem grant the kids of Chai Lifeline a full recovery. We all want these kids to get better, the least I could do is to try to abandon some forbidden pleasures so that God willing it should be a Zechus for them to recover.
Last Edit: 07 Jan 2018 05:21 by bear.

Re: No soldier left behind - Kol Yisrael Areivem 07 Jan 2018 05:30 #324848

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What a beautiful idea! You deserve a bear hug!
Feel free to contact me at michelgelner@gmail.com

My threads: Lessons Learned: guardyoureyes.com/forum/20-Important-Threads/335248-Lessons-Learned

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Re: No soldier left behind - Kol Yisrael Areivem 07 Jan 2018 05:39 #324849

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bear wrote on 29 Dec 2017 18:30:
There is a quote from Rav Nachman of Breslov in which he says, "אם אתה מאמין שיכולים לקלקל, תאמין שיכולים לתקן - if you believe you can break, believe you can fix". The quote always bugged me, it made no sense. On a personal note, it has been so easy for me to break. I live in a society that actively promotes lewdness, my Rebbiem did not speak enough about the dangers of the internet, my family computer did not always have a good filter. So for me to fall has been so easy, to fix on the other hand requires me to stand up to all the challenges. So how can you compare breaking and fixing?

I think the answer to the question is the first part of the phrase, "אם אתה מאמין שיכולים לקלקל - if you believe that you can break". In reality, so many times I never realized that I can break, rather I said that my surroundings controlled me. I rationalized that I never broke anything, rather my surroundings broke me. What I have to acknowledge is that ultimately, even though my surroundings may have added challenge, the reason I fell was because I MESSED UP. I have free will I could have stood strong, but I CHOSE NOT TO. And once I admit that my failings are do to nothing but myself, I also realize that my pathway to fix is solely controlled by me. I have Bechira, free will, an internal locus of control, the way I live my life is up to me; therefore, just like I can chose to break, so too I can chose to fix. 

"אם אתה מאמין שיכולים לקלקל, תאמין שיכולים לתקן - if you believe you can break, believe you can fix".

On a similar note:
I heard a beautiful vort. The Gemarah says that one who prays in a "Makom Kavuah - set place" is called a talmud of Avraham, humble, among other great things. The question is why? Why is praying in the same spot consistently considered an act of humility and a great thing? 

If one prayed and was not answered there are ways he may respond to try to get answered the next time he prays. One approach is to say that there was something about the location where they prayed that was not conducive to their prayer. They blame the poor results on the surroundings or environment. Though, the other approach is to say, I did not pray well enough. The reason I was not answered was due to my shortcomings, and if I want to be answered next time, I have to improve myself to pray better. This approach is humble because it acknowledges ones own shortcomings. It does not blame the surroundings and environment, rather it says the thing to change is myself. It is also very empowering because it says you can change yourself and receive better results.
Last Edit: 07 Jan 2018 05:42 by bear.

Re: No soldier left behind - Kol Yisrael Areivem 07 Jan 2018 20:05 #324895

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very nice !i heard s/t similiar from Rabbi Shlomo Mandel shlita, after rabbi eliezer ben durdaya sinned with the zoneh  ,he went to a valley , and (something like this )said heavens and earth ask mercy for me' this and that beg mercy for me , then he said it only depends on me and he put his head down and cried until his neshama left him what helped him was stop blaming external things for him acting out like the sun and moon , heaven and earth etc... take the responsibility and  blame , and thats how he came to his teshuva ,thanks again!

לב  טהור   ברא   לי   אלקים , ורוח  נכון    חדש  בקרבי

  to all my friends who heeded my request  to be so generous and give me a negative karma  for the sake of me acquiring       
                                                . humility ,i humbly  thank you                                                                                                 

Last Edit: 07 Jan 2018 20:17 by ieeyc.
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