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OnTheRoad is BackonTrack is OTR is....
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TOPIC: OnTheRoad is BackonTrack is OTR is.... 77971 Views

Re: OnTheRoad is BackonTrack is OTR is.... 05 Apr 2016 15:24 #283598

  • skeptical
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mggsbms wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong, "working" the steps is not working on sobriety, that's what Hashem is doing.


What is it working on?
Last Edit: 05 Apr 2016 15:25 by skeptical.

Re: OnTheRoad is BackonTrack is OTR is.... 05 Apr 2016 15:28 #283599

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OTR wrote on 05 Apr 2016 04:39:
Immediately preceding my acting out, I was actually amidst working on a business  opportunity that came to fruition after many months of work. This is actually a pretty big upswing tone as things are improving.. I'm asking myself- why now? Why at a good time was I so compelled to act out?

 was it the defeated addict in me that wants to self destruct?

 was out the nervousness of seeing this effort co me to fruition and hoping it went well

 was it just because inside me I got tired of being sober and wanted some 'excitement.'

That llast one scares me more than anything... 

Good to see you digging in and thinking about what set you off, imho.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like your 1st option is what workingguy was talking about, pretty much.  I can't offer any insight into what goes on with you, obviously.  But for me the nervousness really rings true, and also the self sabotage.  I'm curious what others think about the last one you mentioned - the thrill seeker / adrenaline junkie - I don't think sobriety needs to go together with words like: (I went synonym surfing)

boring / uneventful / uninteresting / unexciting / dead / drag / drab / drudging / stupid / tedious / tiresome / lifeless / dull / moth-eaten / humdrum / ho hum / irksome / platitudinous / bromidic

Maybe it's different for everyone, but I wonder if the work we really need to put in for recovery is to bring more life into our sober selves so that it's actually more exciting and more appealing than the old ways

I feel like an idiot "lecturing" to a pro-veteran like yourself, but it's fun to post on the forums 

Re: OnTheRoad is BackonTrack is OTR is.... 05 Apr 2016 16:10 #283608

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Workingguy wrote on 05 Apr 2016 13:10:

OTR wrote on 05 Apr 2016 04:39:
Immediately preceding my acting out, I was actually amidst working on a business  opportunity that came to fruition after many months of work. This is actually a pretty big upswing tone as things are improving.. I'm asking myself- why now? Why at a good time was I so compelled to act out?

 was it the defeated addict in me that wants to self destruct?

 was out the nervousness of seeing this effort co me to fruition and hoping it went well

 was it just because inside me I got tired of being sober and wanted some 'excitement.'

That llast one scares me more than anything... 


I want to offer another option that was relevant to me when I would act out when good things were happening. It's a little convoluted, but here goes.

Many of us guys with these problems feel unworthy, dishonest, full of shame, etc. because of our acting out, we feel that we don't really deserve anything good because we are "so bad" and almost expect bad things to happen.

But then good things start to happen, and it's frightening, bc we think we're not worthy of it to last. So subconsciously, we act out which makes us feel even more unworthy. That way, we figure that for sure all the hatzlacha is going to go down the drain and so we don't have to worry about living with success that can leave at any moment, bc we've destroyed the success.

It sounds crazy, but addicts have a self sabotaging behavior so maybe that's what it is.

Yes I identify with this entirely. thanks for posting that. That is pretty much what i meant to say when I wrote "the self destructing addict in me..." - I am not sure if I can point to any one thing as regards what caused me to act out. 

THere are likely a lot of things that went into it. Not working the steps properly, being anxious, just not wanting to work on sobriety/.... RIght now, I think the best thing for me is to hold off for a few days on evaluating that and try to just get one day at a time.

 
  • I've never been one for signatures.. but sometimes people change
  • I'm seeking the life that I find manageable which may not be the life you find manageable. But let's make a deal. I want you to find yours and you want me to find mine even if they are different.
Last Edit: 05 Apr 2016 16:27 by OTR.

Re: OnTheRoad is BackonTrack is OTR is.... 05 Apr 2016 16:40 #283610

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The Value of a Day:

So I woke up yesterday and thought ugh.... "day one". What's day one? Is it worth anything at all. I could just go and act out now and start one tomorrow... How much would I lose? It's only one day.... But I started and stayed clean yesterday. It was one day. Prior to that I had about 40+ days. Was the 39th day more enjoyable in terms of sobriety than yesterday? Or today? Not especially. (Actually, toward the end of my 'streak' i felt not too great and was lusting quite a lot).
I don't think that the other days were 'worth more' either.

What kills me about this addiction is not the acting out itself- it's the overall effect it has on my life. The way it removes me from my life, and turns my mind into one single focused obsessed acting out machine. It makes me look at the world, which is by and large normal, and imagine, that everyone is a lust addict like me... but they're not. That is what destroys my self esteem, and hence my life. The mindbarf that begins to color every exchange I have with people, turning situations where I am not even attracted to the person into something I want to percieve as lustful or lust tinged.  

If I could act out without those ramifications, to be honest, I think I would. A day without those thoughts is what's worth living for. So.... what's day one worth? If it's a day of sober living and sober thinking, then it's worth quite a lot.

 
  • I've never been one for signatures.. but sometimes people change
  • I'm seeking the life that I find manageable which may not be the life you find manageable. But let's make a deal. I want you to find yours and you want me to find mine even if they are different.

Re: OnTheRoad is BackonTrack is OTR is.... 05 Apr 2016 18:55 #283629

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skeptical wrote on 05 Apr 2016 15:24:
mggsbms wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong, "working" the steps is not working on sobriety, that's what Hashem is doing.


What is it working on?

Skep: I'm pretty sure you know what working on the steps means...
If you're an LGBTQ or LGBTQ-questioning person and looking for someone who can understand you, feel free to reach out. I promise no judgement and to try and listen the best I can. 

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Re: OnTheRoad is BackonTrack is OTR is.... 05 Apr 2016 19:01 #283631

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It's not working on sobriety?

Re: OnTheRoad is BackonTrack is OTR is.... 05 Apr 2016 20:28 #283638

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Yes it is. But god keeps me sober.
If you're an LGBTQ or LGBTQ-questioning person and looking for someone who can understand you, feel free to reach out. I promise no judgement and to try and listen the best I can. 

Email: iam24zman@gmail.com

Re: OnTheRoad is BackonTrack is OTR is.... 06 Apr 2016 04:13 #283722

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I think Skep means to say that working the steps is working on sanity, and the emotional things which trigger lust addiction. Sobriety is a by product of really addressing these issues.

What occurred to me is that I am always put off by the immensity of the 4th step. I think I am going to start keeping a log of these things as my 4th step that may help me feel like I can do this step adequately although not completely. 
  • I've never been one for signatures.. but sometimes people change
  • I'm seeking the life that I find manageable which may not be the life you find manageable. But let's make a deal. I want you to find yours and you want me to find mine even if they are different.

Re: OnTheRoad is BackonTrack is OTR is.... 06 Apr 2016 04:26 #283728

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OTR wrote on 06 Apr 2016 04:13:

What occurred to me is that I am always put off by the immensity of the 4th step. I think I am going to start keeping a log of these things as my 4th step that may help me feel like I can do this step adequately although not completely. 

I can identify with that.  Maybe I'll do the same : )

Re: OnTheRoad is BackonTrack is OTR is.... 06 Apr 2016 06:05 #283766

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The 12th step: Having had a SPIRITUAL AWAKENING AS A RESULT OF THESE STEPS...

The 12 steps are about god; therapy is for emotions. Do emotional defects get addressed? Yes. Is it about emotions? No.
If you're an LGBTQ or LGBTQ-questioning person and looking for someone who can understand you, feel free to reach out. I promise no judgement and to try and listen the best I can. 

Email: iam24zman@gmail.com

Re: OnTheRoad is BackonTrack is OTR is.... 06 Apr 2016 15:15 #283795

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Except that if you choose to believe that your doorknob is your higher power, then it also works. That's very spiritual, indeed.

Re: OnTheRoad is BackonTrack is OTR is.... 06 Apr 2016 15:58 #283798

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skeptical wrote on 06 Apr 2016 15:15:
Except that if you choose to believe that your doorknob is your higher power, then it also works. That's very spiritual, indeed.

Wow you really are "Skeptical" 

Re: OnTheRoad is BackonTrack is OTR is.... 06 Apr 2016 18:35 #283814

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Haha.  Anyone who honestly says

"I came to believe that my doorknob could restore me to sanity, and I decided to turn my will and my life over to the doorknob of my understanding"

is unlikely to recover for other, more obvious reasons...

I was surprised to discover that the chapter explaining how even atheists and agnostics can benefit from the 12 steps basically was about how even they can believe in G-d, despite what they thought  (as I understand the chapter anyway) 
Last Edit: 06 Apr 2016 18:38 by thanks613.

Re: OnTheRoad is BackonTrack is OTR is.... 06 Apr 2016 23:32 #283851

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skeptical wrote on 06 Apr 2016 15:15:
Except that if you choose to believe that your doorknob is your higher power, then it also works. That's very spiritual, indeed.


That was seriously sharp. I'm not a 12 steps advocate per se, but if works for people, why not let live?

Re: OnTheRoad is BackonTrack is OTR is.... 07 Apr 2016 00:56 #283854

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I have no doubt that the 12 Step Program helps some addicts recover.
I also have no doubt that Hashem gifts people, who are ready to do what it takes, the mental clarity to do so. And that is truly a gift from Hashem.

I do have a problem with people in the program saying that their sobriety is completely from G-d, and they have nothing to do with it. 
This world is a world of action. We are here to work on ourselves, and to make this world a better place. As with everything we do, we put in the effort, and Hashem does the rest - but we need to put in the effort.

The 12 Step Program is not magical. You don't just give it all to G-d to deal with. It's hard work. It's not solely a spiritual program -  it is a form of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy that focuses on training the person to surrender his need for control to relax and trust in G-d, as well as to work on character defects. (And for those who don't believe in G-d, they are encouraged to choose an object, or figment of imagination to be their "higher power". I didn't make up the doorknob thing.)
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