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TOPIC: From tragedy to redemption 55260 Views

Re: A tragedy of the human condition 12 Jan 2015 01:14 #246997

  • newaction
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Hashiva Li its getting late here in the Holy Land. So i am going to check out. Since early Friday Morning you kept me at the edge of my seat. I am going go rest a little. I thank all the Chevra that Helped so much with their helpful and insightful posts in this thread . KOMT everybody.

Re: A tragedy of the human condition 12 Jan 2015 01:33 #247002

  • Hashivalisesonyishecho
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newaction, you've been amazing. Have a well earned rest.

Re: A tragedy of the human condition 12 Jan 2015 01:38 #247003

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Hashiva! I've been reading all the back and forth going on, first of all GREAT STEPS in the right way, opening up, I see you have many questions and there are many ways to choose from, the big boys are throwing it at you, no I'm not an expert at all, however what works for one does not necessarily work for all, here in GYE it's called WW Whatever Works.
Your first step is reading the threads, opening up and the 90 days chart, then slowly you will get familiar with certain ideas and you will then be able to determine for yourself what's needed.
Don't go to fast you might slip, LISTEN to what is being written and continue a normal healthy life, give yourself ample time to digest all the stuff, and the main point surrender all to Hashem for he is the ultimate power.
(Funny nobody mentioned this)
הסיבה שיש דברים קשים העוברים עליך היא בגלל שהאדם חושב כי "אני עומד" שהוא מנהל הכל,
ברגע שיתן הכנעה כי השי"ת מנהיג הכל אז כבר אפשר להתמודד עם הקשיים. שמעתי מאדם גדול

If life is a LEMON make LEMONADE

Thank You Hashem for every moment of Sobriety!

Re: A tragedy of the human condition 12 Jan 2015 01:48 #247004

  • Hashivalisesonyishecho
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It's relatively easy for me to break my shame about the following and it might be a good getting my feet wet for bigger things.

I didn't know what KOMT means so I googled it. I doubt that you meant to say
Keresztény Orvosok Magyarországi Társasága
or even somewhat more likely but still most like not
Kansas-Oklahoma Machine Tools

but it most likely some sort of friendly good night statement so I too for all it's worth say
KOMT

Re: A tragedy of the human condition 12 Jan 2015 03:02 #247005

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Hashivalisesonyishecho wrote:
If I speak to a live person I will have to chose him very carefully. It will need to be someone who won't disrespect me or lose even any teeny weeny amount of respect for me


The conversation has moved on a huge amount since I last saw it. Personally, I'm not going to tell you how to run your program. I think that everyone needs a slightly different program and Hashem leads us all along the path we need, if we let Him.

Opening up to another person is a major way to work on this area. If you do decide to share with another person of course you have to choose someone understanding and discreet, preferably someone who's been there themselves.

I find it interesting to see how much stock you put in other people's opinion of you. It was in your first post too:

Hashivalisesonyeshacho wrote:
everybody was sure I would turn out to be one of the Gedolim.


The idea that even if sharing with someone could save your life you still wouldn't do it if it meant that someone might lose "even a teeny weeny amount of respect" for you if bizarre. Why is the respect so important that you'd rather stay ill than damage it even in a small way?

I also think that this is causing a lot of the destructive shame you're experiencing. It's not just that you're unhappy with your current lifestyle, you think everyone is disappointed in you for not being the godol hador! Imagine the shame if that were really true. In your mind it is true.

But I actually think you've done very well already. You've made a great start and I think you're on the right road. Keep on trucking (KOT) and you'll get there, as long as you're prepared to follow the path Hashem shows you. My question doesn't need to be answered and it isn't me telling you that you have to do it. It's just something you might want to think about.
Last Edit: 12 Jan 2015 03:36 by Watson.

Re: A tragedy of the human condition 12 Jan 2015 03:08 #247007

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Keep on monster trucking!
Continued hatzlocha.
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Re: A tragedy of the human condition 12 Jan 2015 04:36 #247012

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I just want to quote something ur-a-jew posted as a response on my thread a few months ago. I was struggling with a similar issue to yours. His post helped me tremendously, maybe it can help you too:
ur-a-jew wrote:
Okay. I'm not one of the smart guys just a guy with some time on my hands and a desire that someone not waste his life away because he feels that he is supposed to be the gadol hador, but will never be, so why bother at all.
When I first came here many moons ago, I believe it was Dov who commented to me stop thinking so much and start doing.
The feeling that I am supposed to be, could be the gadol hador, but I am not the gadol hador, is in my not-smart-guy opinion a form of gayvah. Now, you may say I'm not looking to be the gadol hador but simply NIC. But reading in between the lines you seem to be saying that had NIC lived up to his potential he could have been Admor NIC Shlita.
We all myself included think we are greater than we really are. As you seem to recognize is a feeling the Yetzer Hora throws upon us.
When we come up to shomayim, we will see what it is that Hashem wanted from us. We are not Neviim and we have no way of knowing. But we do know this: Hashem gave us a Torah and to the best of our abilities He wants us to keep it. So what that means on a practical level is that we need to take one day at a time and serve Him each day to the best of our abilities. Some days we will succeed. Others we won't. If we take that approach after 120 we can look back and see a lot of single days that add up to a mountain of accomplishment. The other alternative is that we can start out each day, say today there is no way I can finish the day as the gadol hador so I might as well not try. At the end of 120 we will look back, see nothing and say "you see I told you I couldn't do it."
I forget which Rishon says that our mission in life is to perform 1 mitzvah l'shem shomayim. And that is pshat in רצה הקבה לזכות את ישראל לפיכך הרבה להם ורה ומצות. Since there are so many opportunities hopefully the person will perform one right during his life time. So we don't have to write the hammek davar, we don't even have to be a tzaddik, we have to be good Jews. Treat our wives properly (not as a sex object), raise good children and be honest in business.
If you start working on that TODAY you will be able to look back in a year from now and hopefully say that I don't know whether I have reached my potential but I know that I am a better person than I was last year.
I just want to end with a story someone once told me. He was speaking to a kid that was in the dumps. The kid turned to him and said tell me Rabbi (he actually wasn't a real rabbi but a business man who was making an effort to fulfil his potential): It says that if a person does teshuva his averois become zechuyos. Tell me exactly how all of the XXX movies I've watched will become zechuyos. The business man thought for a minute and turned to him (he told me Hashem put this answer in his head on the spot). When you go to Yeshiva and start applying yourself and you eventually become a rebbi you will turn to a kid who was just like you and he asks you "how can I do it." you'll be able to respond I was the same way but look where I've come to. At that point all of those movies will become zechoyus. So NIC, do your job for today. And tomorrow do your job for tomorrow. In a couple of years when the next NIC comes on and says he is such a failure be in the position to tell him, I was there to, I felt like a nothing too. But look at me now. Everyday, I try my best to be a good yid and you can too. At that point, you will see how you were able to transform a perceived walking baal taschis into a walking baal tachlis.
Hope I didn't offend you with anything I wrote. And, if you disagree with what I wrote then I guess you'll have to wait for the smart guys to come along.


I wish you much hatzlacha and מנוחת הנפש!

Re: A tragedy of the human condition 12 Jan 2015 06:00 #247019

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The progress continues.
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If one gives up at the first sign of a struggle, he is really not ready to be successful."
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"The right thin' to do and the hard thin' to do are usually the same."


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Re: A tragedy of the human condition 12 Jan 2015 08:41 #247024

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Watson wrote:



The idea that even if sharing with someone could save your life you still wouldn't do it if it meant that someone might lose "even a teeny weeny amount of respect" for you if bizarre. Why is the respect so important that you'd rather stay ill than damage it even in a small way?



Thank you for the mussar. Maybe I'm really most concerned of it getting out. I might do what you suggest.

I also thank belmont4175 for saying the following

Your first step is reading the threads, opening up and the 90 days chart, then slowly you will get familiar with certain ideas and you will then be able to determine for yourself what's needed.
Don't go to fast you might slip, LISTEN to what is being written and continue a normal healthy life, give yourself ample time to digest all the stuff, and the main point surrender all to Hashem for he is the ultimate power.

So I suppose I should take the advice from all of you chaverim and try moving ahead slowly and planning and hoping and davening to get to where I should be as soon as possible without jumping the gun.

Re: A tragedy of the human condition 12 Jan 2015 09:19 #247027

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I'm just thinking. There's been a discussion here of whether it's mamash an illness or just an occasional aveira etc. When I think about myself pondering this I must wonder am I crazy? The person who eats poison only occasionally and can actually keep away for stretches, is he ill or just whatever. To look where I may not on purpose even once means I'm ill without question. If once is acceptable than 1000 times once is acceptable too. I have become so desensitized that I can actually have a doubt. Don't I deserve to strive to be completely healthy? So why measure how sick? Sick is sick and needs a cure. I now strive to never ever look at shmutz again. Not even once. That's the goal.

Re: A tragedy of the human condition 12 Jan 2015 10:34 #247029

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Hi Hashiva Li , its an insanity that impairs your thinking and it causes confusion so you can not tell truth from false . It makes you think that somehow the "aveiro" is good for you , it calms your pains , etc . Then it causes craving for more and more all the time. i am sorry to say but yes we have to accept we have an illness. Having accepted that, we have to start treating the illness . The root of this illness is our wrong way of thinking that we run our lives and our world and we have to be in control of everything . The cure to this illness is having Hashem run our lives and our world and let Him control . I said it in a nutshell but this is the whole Torah of it . It is very simple but not easy . Its a lifetime job ... but your are worth it .

Re: A tragedy of the human condition 12 Jan 2015 11:03 #247030

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newaction wrote:
The root of this illness is our wrong way of thinking that we run our lives and our world and we have to be in control of everything . The cure to this illness is having Hashem run our lives and our world and let Him control .


Can you expand on this?
How does the thinking that we run our lives make us look where we shouldn't?

Hashem does in fact run our lives. When you say having hashem...do you mean that we know that he runs... or do you mean that we accept to follow his law and that he knows best and is the boss. I think you mean the first choice. How does this knowledge stop us from these behaviors?

Re: A tragedy of the human condition 12 Jan 2015 11:20 #247031

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We all have things that bother us and causes us pain since we were children . And when we grow we developed resentments towards those who caused us pain . Or we feel loneliness . As I said before we accumulate feelings during our day to day life. So when things do not go our way we feel restless or irritable or unhappiness or anything of the sort . When i used to feel anger at somebody my feelings of acting out were on high . Sometimes it was my father (that yells at me ), my wife that does not want closeness with me , anything, anytime. We get irritable because things do no go our way . But in order to have peace of mind and serenity we have to give over our will and our life to Hashem . That will have the urge under control. First thing you have to start watching your eyes and stop doing whatever is it that you are acting out on . Simultaneously you have to work on the 12 step program . You may have to put filters on your computer and cell phone. And start working on how to keep sober and not falling.

Re: A tragedy of the human condition 12 Jan 2015 12:09 #247032

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Hi Hashiva!!!

Lots of progress on your part in just the past day. Your doing great. Keep up the good work.

I don't have much to add to all the posts from the guys here. They are full of wisdom and concern. The guys are so amazing. I hade a huge chizzuk from this thread.

Nic that's a great post from ur-a-jew thanks so much. and the same goes for all the chevrah on their posts.

I just wanted to add one point but you seemed to write it on you own.

Hashivalisesonyishecho wrote:


So I suppose I should take the advice from all of you chaverim and try moving ahead slowly and planning and hoping and davening to get to where I should be as soon as possible without jumping the gun.


KOMT!!!! (keep on monster trucking)

Re: A tragedy of the human condition 12 Jan 2015 21:39 #247059

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newaction wrote:
The root of this illness is our wrong way of thinking that WE run our lives and our world and WE have to be in control of everything . The cure to this illness is having Hashem run our lives and our world and let Him control . I said it in a nutshell but this is the whole Torah of it . It is very simple but not easy . Its a lifetime job ... but your are worth it .


So very well said!
(see my footnote)

In the course of recovery in whatever program you choose a main key is EMUNAH, I would advise you to read THE GARDEN OF EMUNAH by Rabbi Shalom Arush [translated by Rabbi Lazer Brody] to get to know the fundamentals of Emunah, thereafter you will come to acknowledge HIM in your life at every step, (your Gaavah will drop, sorry).

Personally speaking we have we no choice, we have come to realize that our life is unmanageable with all the trail and tribulations that we endure, so we surrender to God and literally let HIM take over and run the show.

Start learning it's never too late. Be'Hatzlacha
הסיבה שיש דברים קשים העוברים עליך היא בגלל שהאדם חושב כי "אני עומד" שהוא מנהל הכל,
ברגע שיתן הכנעה כי השי"ת מנהיג הכל אז כבר אפשר להתמודד עם הקשיים. שמעתי מאדם גדול

If life is a LEMON make LEMONADE

Thank You Hashem for every moment of Sobriety!
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