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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk
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Im Paga be’cha menuval zeh, mushchei'hu le- BEIS HAMEDRASH! This board is for divrei Torah relating to our struggle with the Yetzer Hara, from the entire spectrum of Tanach, Chazal, Mussar and Chassidus. On this board there will be no posts about personal struggles and no debates. Only TORAH CHIZUK.

TOPIC: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 69420 Views

The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 19 Jan 2016 14:07 #274857

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bardichev wrote:
Beshalach-Shabbos SHIRA tuf shin ayin alef


KEEP ON TRUCKING

By:bardichev

This dvar Torah is dedicated to my good chver Zemiros Shabbos

May he see bracha vihatazlacha in all his endeavors

The place:Somewhere near Egypt

The time:chol hamoed
Pesach

The yidden are trapped in the deset

The Egyptian Cavalry all of it and all their legions. The entire Egyptian army are bearing down on the Jews
The jews are between a rock and a hard place

The only place they can go is forward

Slight issue homo-sapians are not amphibians.

What is there to do

No retreat
No where to turn

So the Jews do what Jews always do they pray!

Gevaldiggggg??

Nisht!

Hashem says why are you screaming

??

Speak to the people and tell them to get moving

YAYISOO-ee (vayisa-uu)

KEEP ON TRUCKING!!

Fregt bards

What was wrong with prayer?

There is  a huge lesson here

Huge

When facing a personal challenge

We can't say

I tried

I cried

I prayed

No no no

Do something posotive

Drive forward

Even if it means jumping into the sea

Vayisa-uu!!

Too often I see here on the forum. People are haunted by their own demons

Leave them behind you!! Ayyy they are chasing you?! Just keep on trucking!

Of course tefilla!but like Hashem says tefilla plus action

Like the Rupshotzers kugel

The rupshizer roov reb naftali horovitz talmid of the (chozeh)Lubliner

His rebbetzin was a bit stingy but a big tzaddekes

So she made a small kugel one potato. A small onion.  She put it in the oven. Took out her tehillim and began to daven that the kugel should "gelung"

While she was davening. The rebbe. Grabbed a sack of potatoes some huge onoins a dozen eggs. A jug of oil. Salt feffer ahhh

He added his rebbetzin bite size kugel to a huge kugel for all the chassidim

The rebbetzin finishes davening

Looks into the oven and beams as she says ,
Naftali lOok my tefilla worked!

The rebbe says "yes your tefilla along with my massim tovim"




Keep on trucking


With

All

The

Love

In

The

World

H&H

bardichev

Good Shabbos
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 21 Jan 2016 16:22 #275134

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Yosef Hatzadik wrote:
Parshas Beshalach:


Haym ra'ah vayanos.
Mah ra'ah? Arono shel Yosef ra'ah. (Midrash)

Is that what the sea was afraid of? A few old bones in a box??

The see was afraid of Atzmas Yosef - that atzmius of Yosef - the essence of yosef!! The sexual purity of Yosef Hatzadik that Klal Yisroel had within themselves!!!


A baal keri needs to immerse himself in the waters of a mikvah. The Yidden were soooo far removed from that, that not only did they not need to immerse themselves in the water. The water actually FLED when the Yidden entered the seabed!!!!

;D
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 22 Jan 2016 00:29 #275192

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Efshar Letaken wrote:
I the Janitor of the Beis Medrash have the Power to clean up the garbage as I have already started to do & will continue to at 6pm EST so that those who choose can clean up there own shmutz.

Rabeinu Guard is doing an outstanding job personally getting involved in making sure we can all get along so that we can win this battle we are all fighting for.

Perhaps this story can help.

A Non Religious Jew once asked I think it was Reb Amnon Yitzchak. (He might of been asking it sarcastically) he said "I want to become frum but I don't know what sect to choose!"

1st you have Sfardim, Ashkanazim & Mizrachim

Then you have with in them you have so many other sects and everyone has their own way!

So how do I choose?

So he gave this gr8 comparison.

Rav Amnon Yitzchak asks him, The Army! They have Ground Troops, the Navy the Air Force, Comandos, Seals, Yasam, Golani, and so on. why so many different types? who are the ones that can win the war those are the ones we need! forget about the rest! Which one is the right one?!

The answer is we need them all! Everyone fights in there own way and together only together but every one with their own tactics can they win! you just have to see in what section of the army you can fight best & that's were you belong.

The Nimshal is obvious! We need the Sfardim, Ashkenazim, Mizrachim, Chasidim, Litvaks, Derech of Simche the Derech of Yireh, Torah, Tefila, Taharah & Yes Even the 12 steps, Evereyone in their own way with their own Tactics.

There's only one important thing to remember at the end of the day.

"We Are All Fighting For One Chief & Commander!"

"We Are All Here To Follow His Will!"

Also, I heard a great vort about Krias Yam Suf.

1) Why was it that the sea was split into 12 Separate lines one for each Tribe?
2) & if it was already Separated then why were the walls Crystal Clear so was one tribe able to look into the others?

The Answer is Gevaldig!

We all have are own Derech that we have to follow & not Budge from it! But! But! But! We have to see that the others also have a derech and they too have a Nosi Leading them & that Nosi is Following Toras Moshe MiSinai that Moshe Rabeinu got directly from Hashem!

So, I think that the message is loud & clear "Harbei Drachim La'Mokoim!"

So even if we disagree with one another on what Approach works in this fight, there's no need to get all Heated up or and using Hurtful words. WE CAN SAY THE SAME EXACT THINGS WITHOUT THE EXCITEMENT THAT COMES ALONG WITH IT & without getting PERSONAL.

Yes!
Efshar Letaken
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 24 Jan 2016 16:16 #275319

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markz wrote:
Another point, is the words of the Gra zl in even shleima that Torah alone doesn't purify at all without the right mindset, it can even do the opposite

The heads of the reform movement knew more Torah than all of us put together...

To be continued another time


Now's the time! because I found one of GYE's darshanim's take on the matter, so without further ado, here goes

battleworn wrote:
 The Gemoroh in Kidushin 30b says בראתי...ואם אתם עוסקים בתורה אין אתם נמסרים בידו…  -Hashem said to Am Yisroel “I created the y”h and I created The Torah as a “spice” for him. If you are involved with the Torah you will not be given over in to the hands of the y”h”. The questions I want to discuss are: (1) What’s the y”h? (2) What does a “spice” mean? (3) What does it mean to be involved? (4) What is the Torah? (5) What does “you will not be given over in to his hands” mean? And of course, why does it often seem that it doesn’t work?

Similarly, Chazal tell us that the Torah improves your personality in every way and to a very great extent (see Pirkei Avos 6’1). But Chazal also tell us that one who learns Torah and doesn’t act properly makes a great chilul Hashem. In light of everything that the Torah is supposed to do to a person, how is it possible to not act properly if you learn Torah?

The Zohar Hakodosh says that all the mitzvohs are meant to save us from the y”h. Why does it often seem that it doesn’t work?

The posuk says כל מצותיך אמונה. One of the meanings of this posuk is that all mitzvohs bring us to Emunah. Why does it often seem that they don’t? [This is very important to us because Emunah is the key to braking out of the y”h’s clutches.]

What comes first, action or intention? In other words which one is the cause and which one is the effect?

The Arizal says that if you learn Torah without first doing Teshuva then the Torah could actually c”v make you worse. How can that be if the Torah is supposed to be what brings a person to teshuva?

I think if we answer the first 5 questions, the rest will be answered automatically. First, what is the y”h? In order to answer that, we need to know what we would be like without the y”h. {The question of whether the y”h is an angel or a part of us, is not relevant to our discussion.}

Without the y”h we would automatically gravitate only towards Hashem and automatically keep all the mitzvohs, because that’s the very essence of our soul. We would automatically run from lust more than from physical death. Not just from sin, but from all lust, because by definition any other desire is a contradiction to our desire for Hashem. Any other desire causes a separation between us and Hashem which by definition is a separation between us and everything good. In fact it’s a separation between us and The very Source of our existence. The threat of a separation between us and Hashem is a much more serious threat than any threat to our physical existence. We therefore would not have “bechira” because there wouldn’t be anything to choose about.

The y”h has what would seem like an impossible job. He has to somehow confuse us so badly, to the point that we could actually want to do things that are much more damaging to ourselves than physical death. That’s quite a task! So how in the world can he accomplish this?

He accomplishes it by perverting the very desire-for-Hashem itself. He concentrates on the desire that we feel, while covering up the Object of our desire. He confuses us about the void that we feel. He tells us that it’s a need for lust when really it’s a need for Hashem.

And how does he do all this? By making us think that we have our own separate existence that is not dependant on Hashem. By convincing us, that we are something else other than a “shli’ach”- emissary of Hashem. This delusion is called גיאות and is the source of sources of all sin, all faults of character and all negative emotions.{R’ Tzadok Hacohen in Tzidkas Hatzadik discusses all this}If a person realizes that he is nothing but an emissary of Hashem Himself, there’s absolutely no room for arrogance, low self esteem, self consciousness or anything else negative.

Once he gets us to c’v sin, it causes a separation between us and Hashem and between our pnimius and our chitzonius. This in turn makes his job much easier, because that separation makes us not see who we really are. It in turn causes our lives to be full of frustration, anxiety etc. Deep in our heart we know that this whole mess is caused by a “lack of Hashem” but the y”h continues to delude us. In addition (and it says in seforim that this is the main part) he uses the sin to “prove” to us that we are not really connected to Hashem at all, but rather we are c”v connected to the “opposite side.” In addition he tells us that now Hashem is disgusted by us, so whatever connection there may have been before the sin, is definitely gone by now.

He goes on to explain that the only realistic way to fill the void is with lust. We get easily fooled because the lust provides immediate relief (for at least a second) while getting close to Hashem takes time and work. The cycle continues and his job gets easier and easier. (1) In answer to the first question, the y”h is the force that pulls us away from Hashem and towards other desires by confusing us with delusions.

So now Hashem says that He provided a remedy (a spice). This does not mean that if we choose that we don’t want to do a particular “aveiroh” then we should throw the Torah at him. (2) Rather it’s a remedy against the whole confusion that the y’h causes. If you want to think straight and get rid of the fallacies of the y”h, that can be accomplished through Torah.

(3) The way it’s accomplished through Torah is by being involved in Torah. One who is involved in the Torah is connecting with Hashem actively with a greater connection than any connection found in the physical world between any two things. (Nefesh Hachaim shaar 4 perek 6 and Tanya perek 5, It’s worth learning it before the next time you learn Torah) If you are involved with Hashem [as explained in those sources] by definition you can’t also be involved with lust. The two are mutually exclusive.

(4) But we need to know what the Torah is. A person has the ability to separate the Torah from Hashem. This is called learning מן השפה ולחוץ.  That means that he doesn’t want to connect to the spirit of the Torah but rather he’s only interested in the Torah as a science. He prefers to remain connected to “the other side” although he may very well be desperately trying to stop sinning. Not only will the Torah not help, it will make things worse (Nefesh Hachaim ibid perek 5 and Ba’er Heitiv O’CH siman 571 s”k 1)He must realize that the Torah is Dvar Hashem and connecting with Torah is connecting with Hashem, and disconnecting from foreign desires.

If someone learns Torah with the spirit of  Hashem in mind and he wants to change direction and turn away from lust and towards Hashem, then the Torah will accomplish exactly that. (5) That’s what it means “you will not be given over in to his hands”- he will no longer be able to delude you in to directing all your energy towards destroying yourself, by distancing yourself from Hashem. Instead you’ll direct all that energy to connecting with Hashem – The Source of all good, all pleasure and all happiness!

[There are other prerequisites for “Torah tavlin” (like not speaking loshon horoh) but for the most part, once you have the right attitude everything else will work out. A very basic prerequisite is Emunah in the power of Torah to change you. R’ Tzvi Meir says (in the name of the Besh’t the Chasam Sofer and others) that very often the y”h knows that he can’t weaken our Emunah in the Torah. So he tells us that Chazal were talking only about people who are on a high level. But when we learn, it’s not the real thing so it can’t really change us. This is a tremendous pitfall, because if we have Emunah in the power of our Limud Hatorah it will definitely change us totally.]

The above applies –of course-also to all other remedies (like Tefiloh, Mitzvohs, mikveh etc.) The Rishonim (Chinuch, Chovos Halvovos and Rambam) taught us that the way we act affects us greatly. Just as intention leads to action, so to does action lead to intention. If Emunah and being close to Hashem make us do mitzvohs, then doing mitvohs makes us have Emunah and brings us close to Hashem. But only if we want to be close to Hashem; and that means to want to drop all foreign desires.

Practically speaking, how do we make sure that we have the right attitude? If we sunk so low, how do we make sure that we “want” to change? This is an old problem and the answer is to be found in the famous words of Hoshe’a Hanavi (14, 2-3) שובה ישראל עד ד' אלוקיך....קחו עמכם דברים.... “Return, Yisroel, [all the way back] until Hashem your G-d for you have stumbled in your sins. TAKE WITH YOU WORDS…"  We need to speak it out with Hashem (see the commentaries on this posuk) R’ Pinkus used to say that the most basic prerequisite for sholom bayis [between Hashem and us] is open communication. We need to say to Hashem "אלכה ואשובה אל אישי הראשון. No more cheating on You, no more foreign desires, I want only You and nothing else". By saying it on a regular basis, we start to feel it more and more.

But the Seforim Hakidoshim (Nefesh Hachaim ibid perek 7 among others) give an even more immediate solution. Each time you’re about to learn Torah; before you start, take a couple of minutes to speak to Hashem. Say to Him: “I have sinned but I deeply regret it. I have been fooled by the y”h in to straying, but really all I want is You. Please take pity on me that the Torah should not c”v be considered like the Torah of a rasha. Rather it should change me like only the Torah can, it should bring me close to you and the fire of Torah should burn up all garbage that I absorbed. Please help me remember what learning Torah is all about and save me from the y”h who works tirelessly to make me forget all these things. Etc…”  

To sum up, there are two things we need to do in order for these things to work.

1) We need to understand what it is that we should want it to do for us.

2) We need to speak it out with Hashem both in general and particularly before Learning Torah.

Hashem should take pity on us and all of Klal Yisroel and take us out of the darkness; both the darkness of our private golus and the darkness of the general galus and we should all be zocheh very, very soon to see אור חדש על ציון תאיר במהרה בימינו


This is irrelevant to the point that many of us need more than learning Torah for our recovery, but I quoted this to highlight the point that תורה תבלין is only true when done correctly
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 25 Jan 2016 03:23 #275383

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ur-a-jew wrote:
Saw a wonderful vort from Rabbi Zilberstein this past Shabbos (Borchi Nofshi - Parshas Pekudai):

Reb Zilberstein brings down a shaila from Reb Yehoshua Karlinsky who asks on the Rambam which says (Ishus Perek 15 Halacha 19) that a person has to love his wife like himself ("k'gufo").  What chiddush is the Rambam adding when he says "love your wife like yourself" there is a mitzvah to love everyone like yourself.  Reb Zilberstein says the question was asked to Reb Chaim Kanievski who answered as follows:

The Gemara in Nidah 16b says:

אמר רבי שמעון בן יוחאי ארבעה דברים הקב"ה שונאן ואני איני אוהבן הנכנס לביתו פתאום ואצ"ל לבית חבירו

There are four things that Hashem hates and I don't love them. 

Says Reb Chaim Kanievsky, that from the perspective of V'Ahvta Lrayacha Komocha there is no obligation to love a person who does one of these things.  But that is only when it comes to other people.  When a person is dealing with one's wife even if she does things that Reb Shimon Ben Yochai says he doesn't love a person who does those things, it is only to exempt them from the mitzvah of V'Ahvta, a person still has an obligation under the chiyuv to love your wife "K'gufo" to love her notwithstanding her doing these things.  This stems from the obligation of  וידעת כי שלום אהלך a person must do whatever it takes to insure that there is sholom in his home.

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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 28 Jan 2016 00:43 #275733

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פרשת יתרו

אל תגשו אל אשה ותרגומו לצד איתתא, ודקדק בשנוי הלשון, ותירץ מי שהוא בצד זה, אינו בצד אחר

האדמור מקוצק
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 28 Jan 2016 15:08 #275800

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Yosef Hatzadik wrote on 20 Jan 2011 16:14:
Parshas Yisro:


Yosef Hatzadik wrote on 20 Jan 2011 16:11:

Parshas Yisro:


Vayichad Yisro:

      =  Yisro rejoiced together with his newfound co-religionists.
      =  Yisro's skin 'prickled' upon hearing about the demise of his former colleagues, the Egyptians.

Are these two statements contradictory?





A GYE Member:
  • We are happy & appreciate our newfound recovery & sobriety.

  • We long for the pleasurable sensation we got through lusting.



Am I living a contradiction?


The above Rashi concludes that for 10 generations we mustn't belittle a gentile in the face of a ger.

This may be a source in the Torah for the axiom:
Once an Addict, Always an Addict.
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 28 Jan 2016 15:09 #275801

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Yosef Hatzadik wrote on 01 Feb 2015 11:57:
Parshas Yisro:


V'higbalta ess ha'am saviv leimor hishomru lachem alois bahar... (19:12)
Vayomer Hashem el Moshe Leich ha'eid b'am...
Vayomer Moshe el hashem lo yuchal haam laalos el Har Sinai ki atah ha'eidosa banu ...
Vayomer eilav Hashem lech reid [v'ha'eid b'hem sheinis[sub]{Rashi}[/sub]]
(19:23-24)

Hashem commanded us to set boundaries and install filters.

Hashem told Moshe to warn us again.

Moshe queried of Hashem, "Why is a fresh warning necessary? The filters are already installed. Klal Yisroel cannot access the mountain even if they tried!"

Hashem responded, "No Moshe, a filter is NOT foolproof. Moshe, only YOU and Aharon when he is with you (Attah v'Aharon imach) are on such a level but the general multitudes cannot afford to rely on filters."
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 29 Jan 2016 14:34 #275952

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Parshas Yisro

Why did Yisro come?

He heard about the splitting of the sea and the war with Amalek.

What has the one to do with the other?

Amalek wasn't simply a nation of murderous criminals. They were fighting against God Himself, as the verse say, they “did not fear God" (Deuteronomy 25:18). When the Jews were in Egypt, everyone had heard of the great miracles that occurred such as the ten plagues and the splitting of the Red Sea. The Jewish people were a reflection of the Divine Will and Purpose.

An attack on the Jews was by default and attack on God. This was manifested by the fact that Amalek threw the castrated organs toward Heaven, in defiance of God, as if to say, “We despise the holy covenant of Bris Milah.”

Contrast to that - the sea splitting in the merit of Yosef Hatzadik, that cried out “We uphold the holy covenant of Bris Milah.”

GS
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Last Edit: 29 Jan 2016 14:35 by Markz.

The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 31 Jan 2016 16:16 #276052

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מצות עונה

PART ONE


צדיק גמור wrote on 21 Aug 2013 00:54:
ok let me make it cleare. i never dinied this need and/or mitzvah. i abuse it. i abused my wife because i needed to be mekayem this mitzva. (by the way, i was never concern on she'era & kesusa. maybe i need to get a better paying job? maybe i need to work overtime? why only on onasa i was so machmir even when she wasn't in the moode? a point to think


cordnoy wrote on 21 Aug 2013 01:09:
one is not machmir on the mitzvah of onah when he has sex with his wife when she is not willing. That borders on rape, and I highly doubt there is any kiyum mitzvah whatsoever


************************

Lizhensk wrote on 17 Dec 2013 12:15:
redfire wrote:
now when it comes to my wife its tricky, on the one hand i know her emotional and spiritual side well, so she is not a piece of fleish, but on the other hand she is a women i have relations with, piece of fleish, so i gotta find the proper balance of being attracted to her as my wife while not allowing that attraction to go to "fleish for me" territory.

thanks all.

I think lfi aniyas daati, that thinking of ur wife as a piece of fleish, is not the right thing to be thinking of before, during or after relations. If youre having relations for the right reasons, you wouldnt be thinking that. If im right the right thought to have is that you want to become one person and one neshoma together (km'vooer b'zohar - dont ask me where). So if youre thinking that, or something remotely close to that, you wont be thinking of your wife as fleish and then, it probaby would be easier to control your mind. I might be totally wrong, hey, im bad at this myself, but i try.


cordnoy wrote on 18 Dec 2013 06:10:
Piece of fleish!?
Why don't you use rib-steak, a hot dog, hamburger or some roast perhaps?

You know, those of us who were/are porn addicts (myself included) were told that it is impossible for us to view our wives as who they really are, for whenever we are in the bedroom, we are thinking j.d., a.h., j.j., etc. Some of us argued (probably I did once or twice as well) that we have a clear demarcation line. We don't allow any porn starts into our bedroom; but, like we all admit to at some point, that is simply b.s. We cannot divorce the two. If we have allowed those images and scenes to infiltrate our brain, that is what we view when we are partaking in the "heilige" act of lovemaking that Lizhensk eluded to above.

Regardless of this rant, please o' please, do not view your wife as "fleish." That should not be in the equation at all.

I will not go as far as the chasid above that you should think of connecting as one. It is a mitzvah min HaTorah of onah. Your wife certainly is supposed to enjoy it. Perhaps, you are as well. Think of it as fulfilling your obligation; spending and enjoying time with your wife.

And something my therapist has been hitting home about: Do you wanna stay with your wife forever? Do you want your entire focus and attention to be on her? If yes, think positive and plan accordingly. Treat her as such. If not....enjoy your donut!
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 31 Jan 2016 16:37 #276054

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markz wrote on 31 Jan 2016 16:16:
מצות עונה

PART ONE


צדיק גמור wrote on 21 Aug 2013 00:54:
ok let me make it cleare. i never dinied this need and/or mitzvah. i abuse it. i abused my wife because i needed to be mekayem this mitzva. (by the way, i was never concern on she'era & kesusa. maybe i need to get a better paying job? maybe i need to work overtime? why only on onasa i was so machmir even when she wasn't in the moode? a point to think


cordnoy wrote on 21 Aug 2013 01:09:
one is not machmir on the mitzvah of onah when he has sex with his wife when she is not willing. That borders on rape, and I highly doubt there is any kiyum mitzvah whatsoever


************************

Lizhensk wrote on 17 Dec 2013 12:15:
redfire wrote:
now when it comes to my wife its tricky, on the one hand i know her emotional and spiritual side well, so she is not a piece of fleish, but on the other hand she is a women i have relations with, piece of fleish, so i gotta find the proper balance of being attracted to her as my wife while not allowing that attraction to go to "fleish for me" territory.

thanks all.

I think lfi aniyas daati, that thinking of ur wife as a piece of fleish, is not the right thing to be thinking of before, during or after relations. If youre having relations for the right reasons, you wouldnt be thinking that. If im right the right thought to have is that you want to become one person and one neshoma together (km'vooer b'zohar - dont ask me where). So if youre thinking that, or something remotely close to that, you wont be thinking of your wife as fleish and then, it probaby would be easier to control your mind. I might be totally wrong, hey, im bad at this myself, but i try.


cordnoy wrote on 18 Dec 2013 06:10:
Piece of fleish!?
Why don't you use rib-steak, a hot dog, hamburger or some roast perhaps?

You know, those of us who were/are porn addicts (myself included) were told that it is impossible for us to view our wives as who they really are, for whenever we are in the bedroom, we are thinking j.d., a.h., j.j., etc. Some of us argued (probably I did once or twice as well) that we have a clear demarcation line. We don't allow any porn starts into our bedroom; but, like we all admit to at some point, that is simply b.s. We cannot divorce the two. If we have allowed those images and scenes to infiltrate our brain, that is what we view when we are partaking in the "heilige" act of lovemaking that Lizhensk eluded to above.

Regardless of this rant, please o' please, do not view your wife as "fleish." That should not be in the equation at all.

I will not go as far as the chasid above that you should think of connecting as one. It is a mitzvah min HaTorah of onah. Your wife certainly is supposed to enjoy it. Perhaps, you are as well. Think of it as fulfilling your obligation; spending and enjoying time with your wife.

And something my therapist has been hitting home about: Do you wanna stay with your wife forever? Do you want your entire focus and attention to be on her? If yes, think positive and plan accordingly. Treat her as such. If not....enjoy your donut!


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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 04 Feb 2016 00:55 #276549

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TORAH TAVLIN...

Dov wrote:
dozens[/i] more - and love all of them. None of the ones I know ever got sober because of the chassidus they have learned, and they readily admit that. And they work recovery humbly. And they are still mashpi'im and rabbis, etc., just as they were all the years they were having sex with themselves or others. What got them sober and keeps them sober is the getting out of G-d's way that they now do one day at a time, be"H. All the Tanya in the world did not help them do it before, and how ironic it is that they found the tools to do that by attending meetings with goyim - or even worse, with misnagdim! I should know, for my first SA sponsor was a goy (and BTW, in 15 years of sobriety he never once brought up his or my own religion!). And finally, one of the precious brochos that I only learned from the 12-step program is that even though I am sober for over 17 years one day at a time now, it is not because of Torah. Rather, it is because I allowed concepts that are in the Torah (and found elsewhere, too) into myself in a practical sense. So I will never be fooled that it was my religiosity that got me sober. No one can trick me into retroactively saying it was my frumkeit or yiddishkeit that got me sober! Boruch Hashem for that. For that would be the first step back into the toilet bowl for me, since it would just be a face-saving lie. And lying/faking is far more toxic for me than even lusting is. So if anybody can learn these things from chassidus, then the one relevant question is this: "Is it working for you? Are you sober from it and staying sober, or not?" If so, then great! Keep doing it! But it obviously does not work many, because here we who have been learning chassidus are right here on GYE! If 'chasidus' or 'Torah' works, then how'd we get into this mess in the first place and why are we still looking for help? There is an elephant in the room, boys. And it's feet are sticky...  If it is not working for us, that's OK - for you are not alone! You can join the club. SA meetings/12 steps is not the only answer there is, but I know many, many sober sexaholics who are even frummer than you and I are, and yet are b"H sober through 12-step recovery today. Had they remained frum-and-always-getting-holier...they'd still be masturbating themselves and worse, using porn 'mit a firedikeh brenn' and later 'doing Teshuvah ila'ah', confusing themselves more and more and living in a slow hell - as they proved for years and years. The very same journey that so many of us frum, sober pervs are familiar with.
 
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 24 Feb 2016 02:05 #278993

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OTR wrote on 24 Feb 2016 01:28:
Thought I would share one more thought: 

I am not a big mussar advocate (with regard to addiction that is) but this thought really lifted my spirits. What a person can see in a day in these times is more pritzus than their great grandparents could maybe see in 70 years. It follows then that a second of guarding your eyes in THIS generation is more than the shmiras ainayim of the people in the earlier generations. 

Gemara Sanhedrin 98b
'Ulla said; Let him [The Messiah] come, but let me not see him.

אמר רב אין בן דוד בא עד שתתפשט המלכות על ישראל תשעה חדשים שנאמר (מיכה ה, ב) לכן יתנם עד עת יולדה ילדה ויתר אחיו ישובון על בני ישראל אמר עולא ייתי ולא איחמיניה וכן אמר [רבה] ייתי ולא איחמיניה

Can we say the following?

These amoraim knew that how difficult the test of Guarding Our Eyes would be that they said - Let the Days of Moshiach come, and let me not see - blindfold me, because the test is too great

Guys - we are here
We can do it
Lets bring Moshiach Now bb"a
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 24 Feb 2016 02:37 #278998

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markz wrote on 24 Feb 2016 02:05:

OTR wrote on 24 Feb 2016 01:28:
Thought I would share one more thought: 

I am not a big mussar advocate (with regard to addiction that is) but this thought really lifted my spirits. What a person can see in a day in these times is more pritzus than their great grandparents could maybe see in 70 years. It follows then that a second of guarding your eyes in THIS generation is more than the shmiras ainayim of the people in the earlier generations. 





Gemara Sanhedrin 98b
'Ulla said; Let him [The Messiah] come, but let me not see him.

אמר רב אין בן דוד בא עד שתתפשט המלכות על ישראל תשעה חדשים שנאמר (מיכה ה, ב) לכן יתנם עד עת יולדה ילדה ויתר אחיו ישובון על בני ישראל אמר עולא ייתי ולא איחמיניה וכן אמר [רבה] ייתי ולא איחמיניה





Can we say the following?

These amoraim knew that how difficult the test of Guarding Our Eyes would be that they said - Let the Days of Moshiach come, and let me not see - blindfold me, because the test is too great

Guys - we are here
We can do it
Lets bring Moshiach Now bb"a



Mark this gem was actually a recycled vort from the old Bardy who is no longer on the forum. I found it while searching for something else entirely and took chizuk form it. I can show you the original post. Something so amazing I now have a perspective of- What we do here really does remain and can inspire others for the good.

And it works the other way too.. A guy who posts his chizuk, his striving etc..on the forum and then goes off c'vsh and begins acting out again... Let's say he leaves the forum entirely in frustration or depression... But does he also realize that a new fellow walked in as soon as he left. That guy took chizuk from what he had written earlier. MAybe a year later if he would come back and see that his old post inspired someone to be clean for a year he would see how much his efforts did.

It's an amazing power this thing. Not just in getting out of isolation. But in recording our conversations, our efforts and seeing b'chush- that the good we do does not go away, even if we slip as individuals, what we have done can and does continue on.

I have some old friends from my first group. I see their posts here now and they are not sober now. So of course as people inside now we look and say- too bad.... look at them they are lost now... And that is true, they are not happy. BUT, their struggles and words can still inspire people here... It is amazing. 
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Last Edit: 24 Feb 2016 04:13 by OTR.

The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 24 Feb 2016 23:18 #279124

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gibbor120 wrote on 25 Jan 2014 00:31:

dd wrote:
how can i still do תשובה before shabbos and know for once that its real .please chevrah i need you guys to help me.



There's a great sefer called תשובה על רגל אחת. I think that is the one you are looking for.
:pinch: Warning: Spoiler!
.

Take it easy. Really, Teshuva is not an "event" it is a "process". Worry about one day at a time. Take recovery actions, and sometime down the road you will realize that you have been sober for 10 years and you are not quite sure how that happened.

Obsessing about doing teshuva today for an aveirah you have been doing for years (i can't remember your exact history) doesn't seem reasonable to me.

Keep on truckin, do the things that have helped others. Reach out to real recovering people.

You will have hatzlacha IY"H, but not al regel achas .
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