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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk
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Im Paga be’cha menuval zeh, mushchei'hu le- BEIS HAMEDRASH! This board is for divrei Torah relating to our struggle with the Yetzer Hara, from the entire spectrum of Tanach, Chazal, Mussar and Chassidus. On this board there will be no posts about personal struggles and no debates. Only TORAH CHIZUK.

TOPIC: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 76819 Views

Re: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 01 Mar 2017 15:07 #307148

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Do you think that's the plain meaning of pen tirbeh olecha chayas hasodeh?
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Re: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 06 Apr 2017 13:05 #310340

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Stressed?

Anxious about the Pesach Seder like I am?

Then do yourself a favor and listen to this instructive lecture by Rabbi Brezak. 

https://www.torahanytime.com/#/lectures?a=41015

It helped me have a better perspective
How about you?
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Last Edit: 06 Apr 2017 13:05 by Markz.

Re: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 14 May 2017 15:20 #313033

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Someone wrote last week "PARSHAS KEDOSHIM SAYS KILL ALL THOSE SAME / DIFFERENT SEX ADDICTS"

Its a good idea to see what the sages actually say on Parshas Kedoshim

If someone is an eloquent translator, please do us a favor and assist us in transcribing the following quote from the Ohr Hachaim Hakadosh

״ונכרתה הנפש ההוא מעמיה, ובקצרכם את קציר ארצכם...״

וטעם סמיכות מצוה זו לעונש כרת. אולי שרמז שלא יאמר אדם אם הזיד ונתחייב כרת מעתה אין לשמור עצמו מכל אשר יזדמן לפניו במעשה הרע כי כבר נתחייב כרת, לזה אמר ובקצרכם את קציר ארצכם פירוש כשגרם עד שנקצר קציר ארצו שהוא כרת האמור בסמוך לא תכלה פאת שדך לקצור אותה במעשים רעים אחרים

והודיע בזה שלא תכרת כל הנפש אלא
הענף שבו רמוז מצוה זו, ועדיין ישנה לראות אחרים דבוקים בשורשם, כי כל נפש ישראל יש לה שרשים למעלה כנגד כל מצות התורה

ואמר ולקט קצירך וגו', פירוש אפילו בענף החטא עצמו לא יוסיף לחטוא, כי יש לך לדעת מאמר הרב האר''י ז''ל כי בטבע הקדושה להשאיר במקום שתהיה בו רושם. ואם כן הגם שנכרת עדיין יש השארות הקציר שם, והוא שצוה עליו ולקט קצירך לא תלקט ברוב פשעים, כי ה' חפץ שבאמצעות הלקט ההוא יתעורר וישוב בתשובה לפני ה' וירחמהו, כי הלא תמצא שאמרו ז''ל (יומא פו.) שאפילו עבר אדם על כריתות ומיתות בית דין תשובה וכו' מכפרין, וכמאמר הנביא (הושע יד) שובה וגו' עד ה' אלהיך ודרשו ז''ל (שם) גדולה תשובה שמגעת עד כסא הכבוד פירוש שהגם שנכרת החוט המחבר עד כסא הכבוד ולא נשאר אלא חלק קטן בקרבו התשובה מגיעתו עד כסא הכבוד
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Re: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 15 Jun 2017 16:36 #315378

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Bear, when you're done with those there's some honey here
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Re: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 15 Jun 2017 18:57 #315406

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Markz wrote on 15 Jun 2017 16:36:
Bear, when you're done with those there's some honey here

Thanks Markz 

Re: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 16 Jun 2017 14:21 #315480

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There's a question I believe I've heard before with an answer that I forget, but an answer came to me in Shacharis yesterday, so if anyone has any other answers please share.

וְלֹא תָתוּרוּ אַחֲרֵי לְבַבְכֶם וְאַחֲרֵי עֵינֵיכֶם. Rashi says - the eyes see, the heart desires, and the body performs the sin. Why does Rashi reverse the order of the posuk which puts the heart before the eyes?

Maybe because the process of lusting can be separated into two applications. There's the long term derech hachaim, and the short term or immediate nisayon.
Perhaps Rashi is referring to the short term of the nisayon when it happens, I'm walking/driving down the street and an enticing visual appears. The eye sees and the heart desires. B'ezras Hashem we want it to stop at that point and move on.
With regard to the long term, my head and my heart need to be in the right place. Is lusting for physicality my main purpose in life or am I focused on feeding my soul? If my primary goal is physical because my heart is overruling my head, then every visual is an opportunity to complete the cycle of heart - eyes - body. Whereas if my heart is in the right place, subject to my intellect then an enticing visual is just an annoyance that I can try to disregard. In this context the posuk puts the heart before the eye.

To be honest I'm not doing a good job of expressing myself, but this is close to what I was thinking. Feedback welcomed.
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Re: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 16 Jun 2017 17:00 #315495

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Nice vort, sounds good.

The truth is that what Rashi is saying is chazal, I don't remember if chazal say it on this posuk though.
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Re: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 20 Jun 2017 00:49 #315664

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Laasos - sorry I need more elaboration 
Thanks!!
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Re: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 20 Jun 2017 00:54 #315665

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40 Crazy Years! Why should I Change NOW???

Addiction free Life is in your hands - This is the lesson of Parashat Shelach and it's Haftara

Parshas Shelach describes the Jew's inability of breaking out from victim aka Egyptian (*1) Slave Mentality- into survivor aka Freedom Mentality, when they accepted the report of the spies negatively. This sealed their fate in the desert.

In contrast, the Haftara relates Rachav's strength of character breaking free out of 40 years of prostitution from the (*2) young age of 10 [Perhaps due to childhood abuse], and the temptations of her renowned beauty (*3). She made a turn around to the point that she became the wife of the leader of the Jewish nation - Yehoshua!

Her entire nation was in a state of terror with the news of the pending attack from the Jewish nation, where lust activities virtually ceased and closed down her immodest store (*4).

She then made a moral inventory - and accept the true Gd of the Jews, at risk of death. Her neighbors could have done so too. They did not.

She chose life and and Gd granted it to her

Rachav’s message to us (*5), is that no excuse should impede our ability to change. Whatever our life circumstances, we are free either to take responsibility or ignore opportunities for our own self-growth. Rachav decided to use the very same things she had used all along, in order to do the Will of Hashem, in order to create a relationship with him.

Rachav ultimately marries Yehoshua and our sages tell us that from her came eight high priests, who were also prophets – among them Yirmiyahu and Yechezkel. How did she merit such offspring, when in fact there have been others through history who saw God and committed to Him, yet did not merit such rewards? The answer lies in the fact that Rachav saw God in a situation where others might have asked, “Where is God?” Consider Rachav’s position: she is attached to 31 kings and knows their secrets; she lives on the border the Jewish people are about to overrun; she has no idea whether the two men she hides will accept her. Nonetheless, she sees God’s hand in these tribulations, and to this she commits everything.
Rachav understands that, good or bad, everything that happens points the way to God.

To be in a difficult situation and make the best of it – to see God in the midst of uncertainty and chaos – is a quintessentially Jewish trait, whose foremother is the great Rachav.

-----------------------------------
Notes:
*1) See Ibn Ezra Shemos 14:13 re: the slave mentality of the Jewish people
*2) See Tractate Zevachim 116b
*3) See Tractate Megilla 15a
*4) Kesef Mezukak - Parshat Shelach
*5) The final paragraphs are from
torah.org/learning/women-class30/
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Re: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 20 Jun 2017 01:40 #315668

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Markz wrote on 20 Jun 2017 00:54:
40 Crazy Years! Why should I Change NOW???

Addiction free Life is in your hands - This is the lesson of Parashat Shelach and it's Haftara

Parshas Shelach describes the Jew's inability of breaking out from victim aka Egyptian (*1) Slave Mentality- into survivor aka Freedom Mentality, when they accepted the report of the spies negatively. This sealed their fate in the desert.

In contrast, the Haftara relates Rachav's strength of character breaking free out of 40 years of prostitution from the (*2) young age of 10 [Perhaps due to childhood abuse], and the temptations of her renowned beauty (*3). She made a turn around to the point that she became the wife of the leader of the Jewish nation - Yehoshua!

Her entire nation was in a state of terror with the news of the pending attack from the Jewish nation, where lust activities virtually ceased and closed down her immodest store (*4).

She then made a moral inventory - and accept the true Gd of the Jews, at risk of death. Her neighbors could have done so too. They did not.

She chose life and and Gd granted it to her

Rachav’s message to us (*5), is that no excuse should impede our ability to change. Whatever our life circumstances, we are free either to take responsibility or ignore opportunities for our own self-growth. Rachav decided to use the very same things she had used all along, in order to do the Will of Hashem, in order to create a relationship with him.

Rachav ultimately marries Yehoshua and our sages tell us that from her came eight high priests, who were also prophets – among them Yirmiyahu and Yechezkel. How did she merit such offspring, when in fact there have been others through history who saw God and committed to Him, yet did not merit such rewards? The answer lies in the fact that Rachav saw God in a situation where others might have asked, “Where is God?” Consider Rachav’s position: she is attached to 31 kings and knows their secrets; she lives on the border the Jewish people are about to overrun; she has no idea whether the two men she hides will accept her. Nonetheless, she sees God’s hand in these tribulations, and to this she commits everything.
Rachav understands that, good or bad, everything that happens points the way to God.

To be in a difficult situation and make the best of it – to see God in the midst of uncertainty and chaos – is a quintessentially Jewish trait, whose foremother is the great Rachav.

-----------------------------------
Notes:
*1) See Ibn Ezra Shemos 14:13 re: the slave mentality of the Jewish people
*2) See Tractate Zevachim 116b
*3) See Tractate Megilla 15a
*4) Kesef Mezukak - Parshat Shelach
*5) The final paragraphs are from
torah.org/learning/women-class30/

Wow, thats unreal! What a great post...
thank you markz.
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להטות לבבנו אליו ללכת בכל דרכיו ולשמר מצותיו וחקיו ומשפטיו אשר צוה את אבתינו
כי עיקר מציאות האדם בעה"ז הוא רק לקיים מצות ולעמד בניסיון,  והנאות העולם אין ראוי שיהו לו אלא לעזר ולסיוע בלבד לשיהיה לו נחת רוח ויישוב הדעת למען יוכל לפנות לבו אל העבודה הזאת מסילת ישרים

Re: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 29 Jun 2017 12:18 #316420

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(I assume this is for non-addicts - not sure. But I know personally of people that this article is relevant to)

The Dangers of Misguided Piety - by Rabbi Simcha Feuerman

Every few months the media reports incidents involving some prominent rabbi or rebbe committing some form of sexual misdeed. This phenomenon is almost a trend, and therefore not just about occasional outlier; something deeper is behind this...
Apparently, a small, scattered but nonetheless significant number of individuals in the observant community have dragged the ugly one into the Beis Medrash but have not succeeded in rendering him ineffective. What is going wrong? Why is this process failing for a small, but persistent cohort of prominent and learned people?

Speaking as a therapist who has had the privilege of hearing about the inner lives of frum persons from all levels of observance, including very learned and pious individuals, when it comes to sexual matters, some have overshot in their desire to abstain, perhaps because the feelings and drive can be so intense. Shame and guilt about sexual impulses and fantasies has led some to attempt to utterly disavow their sexual needs. Such persons focus on limitation and strict rationing as a way to deal with lust. Instead of finding ways to channel desires in the direction of deepening passion, sexual expression and romance with their spouses, they focus on extreme modesty and other measures. The potential problem with such an approach is that each person has a different nature and while abstention and limitation may work for one person, for another it can only further stoke the fuel of desire. For some people, as their desire builds, their shame builds and they may begin to wall off their personal sexual life from their marital family life. They may behave with their wives and families with extreme and oppressive modesty, but their thoughts and impulses may be burning with unsatisfied lustful fantasies. They are too ashamed to bring this activity into their real love life, and thus are vulnerable to acting out in far more destructive ways. Sexual desire is a powerful force and cannot easily be ignored or redirected. And paradoxically, our Sages tell us, “The greater a man is, the greater his temptation” (Succah 52a – the Gemara is referring specifically to sexual temptation as is evident from the context of the Talmudic discussion.)

It is not surprising nor is it incorrect to attempt to tame the yezer hara by resorting to strict measures of modesty and abstention. The halachos of tznius clearly place responsibility upon people to limit temptation and to behave in ways that mute public sexual expression. Even private excessive sexual expression is considered dangerous, as our Chachamim warn, “A man possesses a small body part which will feel starved if one attempts to satisfy it, and will feel satisfied if one starves it” (Sanhedrin 107a.) Shulchan Aruch (O.C., 240 and E.H. 25) espouses this philosophy in great detail, delineating many steps and measures to maintain sanctity and restraint in the bedroom so the act is not merely to “sate his desire.”

Yet, while acknowledging this as the preferred and ideal course of action, the Ramah (E.H. 25:2) points out, according to the letter of the law, it is permitted to be amorous with one’s spouse engaging in almost any kind of physical activity except for a few basic restrictions. How does one know when it is best to choose the more pious and modest approach and when it is more helpful to the marriage and the individual well being to stick with the letter of the law?

Speaking as a therapist who has seen how these matters affect many marriages, I strongly believe finding the proper balance is key in this area of life. Each person is responsible to know how much abstention and restriction will really and truly work for him and his spouse, and how much will end up causing destruction and sin. It is easy to fool oneself in either direction. While we know a person can easily rationalize moral laziness by telling himself that he is not on a particular level, most are unaware that the opposite danger lurks as well. As Rabban Gamliel warned, “Not everyone who thinks he can take the mantle of extra piety is actually able to do so.” (Mishna Berachos 2:8). Perhaps this is what the Rabbi Yochanan meant when he said, “Whoever is haughty will end up becoming ensnared in adultery” (Sotah 4b). If you think you are such a zaddik, and you really are not, then you will cause either yourself or your spouse to sin. There is little point in extra piety and abstention in the bedroom if the person is acting out improperly outside of the bedroom. Similarly, if one's spouse is feeling deprived or frustrated, given the temptations of today’s internet society, this is a dangerous state of affairs.

Rabbennu Bechaye (Vayikra 11:43) draws a parallel between the value of abstention in eating and abstention in sexuality. Perhaps a good yardstick of one’s true ability to appropriately and meaningfully manage sexual abstention is to be mindful of one’s eating habits. If you like a good steak, and have difficulty controlling your appetite and waistline, perhaps if you try too hard to abstain from permitted forms of sexuality, you may be, quite literally, biting off more than you can chew. This brings to mind something a world renowned dayan and posek once told me: “There are two basic human desires: food and sexuality. Judging by the way many outwardly frum-looking people eat, it is fair to surmise that they are not doing such a great job in the other department as well!”
It is up to each individual person, in consultation with an experienced and mature rav to decide the exact nature of what should be encouraged in the bedroom and what should be more limited. In this spirit, it is important to study statements from Chazal that indicate an alternate view that sees engaging in satisfying sexual behavior as an appropriate way to manage impulses. The rest of this article will focus on some of these teachings to help bring balance and perspective and offer alternative approaches other than strict abstention for some who are in grave danger of succumbing to temptation...

There is a popular saying that it is easier to die sanctifying G-d’s name than it is live sanctifying G-d’s name. Dramatic and extreme acts are in some ways easier to do because of their finality and black and white nature. Rabbenu Yonah in Yesod Hateshuva remarks, that it is much easier to fast completely than it is to eat continuously with restraint in small amounts. It is much harder to live a life of moderation and balance, constantly re-evaluating what is the healthiest and appropriate choice to make than it is to condemn and disdain all forms of passionate expression. How many truly happily married people do you know? How many people do you know, who are married for decades, and still act as if they are in love and desire their spouses? Can the Shechina reside in a home where the husband and wife do not feel close or connected and do not share passion and love? Consider current events, the world we live in and all its temptations, take an honest look at yourself, and start making choices that move you toward passion and love in your life, so you can live al pi kiddush Hashem
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Re: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 29 Jun 2017 12:47 #316421

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Wage bitter war and strife with Moses, our teacher, but, Heaven forbid! Don't you dare look at On's wife's uncovered hair!
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Re: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 11 Jul 2017 12:56 #317018

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Apparently addiction existed before the internet, as we find in the Midrash Parshat Balak

איתא במדרש פרשת בלק - ״ויחל העם לזנות״ יש מעיינות שמגדלין גבורים, ויש חלשים, ויש נאין, ויש מכוערין, ויש צנועין, ויש שטופין בזמה, ומעין שטים של זנות היה והוא משקה לסדום...

What the lessons, Guard your waters"?

_____________

The Midrash gives us another important lesson and continues;

היתה זקנה יושבת מבחוץ ומשמרת לילדה שהיתה לפנים מן החנות. כשישראל עוברין ליטול חפץ בשוק זקנה אומרת לו בחור אי אתה רוצה כלי פשתן שבא מבית שאן והיתה מראה לו ואומרת לו הכנס לפנים ותראה חפצים נאים. הזקנה אומרת לו ביותר וילדה בפחות, מכאן ואילך וכו׳

The ploy used was one that exists still today

What would a Jew not do to save $2?

So, many many of us (myself included) landed on bad websites or in other inapropriate settings, and the catalyst was only an innocuous $2 savings plan

Is it really worth saving $2 in order to lose our sanity?

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Re: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 13 Jul 2017 11:33 #317144

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that Midrash is THE example of showing how careful we have to be, and how going "shopping" can turn into a disaster when it started totally innocently.

Re: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 19 Jul 2017 18:22 #317473

"Rarely did I see ANYONE who's reason for stopping was because of the religious/aveira aspect be successful."

Yoseleh my old and VERY dear friend, define sucessful,  define stopping.

When lust can be defined as a fleeting pleasure that makes me forget all my sorrows, responsibilities, worries, debts, pains, suffering.  An age-old pastime, always in 'hands reach', available on both sidewalks of every street (except in NewSquare). The 'drug of choice' when I am bored, hungry angry lonely tired or depressed.      stopping=white knuckling the natural urge, breaking a life-long habit (easier to learn all ש"ס), facing all my fears, living up to my responsibilities, resolving my worries, paying my debts and bills on time, calmly relaxing in my free time, closing my eyes everywhere but my own home.            how do you expect ANYONE to do that without ENOUGH בטחון?!?!?         "people want to stop because of the איסור"    But in order to successfully do that, they need the right מראה מקומות.  I went through SA and other theraputic systems, just to learn them and teach them to others.     
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