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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk
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Im Paga be’cha menuval zeh, mushchei'hu le- BEIS HAMEDRASH! This board is for divrei Torah relating to our struggle with the Yetzer Hara, from the entire spectrum of Tanach, Chazal, Mussar and Chassidus. On this board there will be no posts about personal struggles and no debates. Only TORAH CHIZUK.

TOPIC: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 76827 Views

Re: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 26 Oct 2016 17:17 #296825

  • Gevura Shebyesod
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At the risk of catching gehinnom... 

I think the point is more a matter of attitude than actual practice. There are those who will always be content with the lowest standard of "being Yoitze" as long as there's some Sheeta that supports it, and make no effort to try to do better than the easiest "Bedieved". It show a lack of taking Yiddishkeit seriously. It's an attitude that its really not important and as long as I can get the bare minimum out of the way then i can just do my own thing.

Sometimes its true that we have a reason to not go further than the minimum, but when Bedieved becomes Lechatchila and there's no interest in trying to live up to a higher standard, then there is a great risk that even the minimum will fall by the wayside.
!אנא עבדא דקודשא בריך הוא

וּבְיָדְךָ כֹּחַ וּגְבוּרָה וּבְיָדְךָ לְגַדֵּל וּלְחַזֵּק לַכֹּל

And every day that you want to waste, that you want to waste, you can
And every day that you want to wake up, that you want to wake, you can
And every day that you want to change, that you want to change, yeah
I'll help you see it through...





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Re: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 28 Oct 2016 00:02 #296953

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cordnoy wrote on 26 Oct 2016 12:37:

Markz wrote on 21 Oct 2016 04:20:
Gevura bugged me for this, although I know gehinnom is taboo here, so read at your own risk :-)

The Gemara teaches that; Lulavim of the Iron Mountain are invalid when the tops of the lower leaves do not reach the base of the ones above it

And it's related that two such date-palms grow in the valley of Ben Hinom, located at the entrance of Gehinom, with smoke rising from between the two palms
(Tractate Succah pg 32b)

The Gemara may be offering the following lesson;

Many people take a backseat approach when it comes to spirituality, and suffice with bare minimums

There are men that lust, and although they have discovered or been guided to ways that may work to clear the deck, yet they are satisfied with their lot in life, happy with the bare minimum.

There are women who dress with clothes that cover the minimum halachic standards.

Similar to the Tzinei Har ha'Barzel leaves that cover the bare minimum.

Many more examples come to mind, some that apply to myself :-(

Says the Gemara - those trees grow at the gates of hell, because if I play with minimum spirituality, I'm playing with fire

But continue reading the Gemara where you'll see various positive spiritual customs over and above the minimum. For example Esrog and Succah with all the enhancements. This is the road to the garden of Eden :-)

Why do you want women to cover more than is required of them?
 why do you consider men who lust as a minimum standard?

The above is a bit of a nitpick, but I don't like the tone of the vort.

Yes, there is לפנים משורת הדין,  but one needs guidance on that. Yes, there is a גמרא which states that keeping דין did not suffice (perhaps even brought about חורבן), but again the examples and practical applications are important. I think I remember someone here poking fun at the women who cover their faces ..... Why?

What a crazy coincidence.
Shame on gevurah.
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Re: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 14 Nov 2016 05:57 #297806

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Markz wrote on 23 Oct 2016 04:24:
First off thanks for that vote

Secondly, you're not the first one that has noted being triggered by the forum. There's others too that benefit from the forum but encounter the same problem you do. I have an idea how we can make the forum better, and therefore would appreciate if you could detail a little what you mean when you say things trigger you, and if you can, an example or 2


Sorry, life's busier than it used to be and I'm not on the forum much. I'll try to give a more detailed response later, but maybe a few ideas that apply to me at least. And I'm sure others can chirp in as well if they want.  In no particular order..
Disclaimer:
:pinch: Warning: Spoiler!

  1. It feeds my addiction. The same emptiness and compulsiveness that makes me "need" to masturbate drives me to keep reading and responding to posts. And checking if anyone responded yet. Or maybe now they responded. I'll just check one more time.. Let's see who's on? Anything new in the chat? I really can't pull myself away, I'll just refresh the page..
  2.  Sometimes it actually is triggering when people talk about their experiences. This part is probably almost unavoidable, but I suspect it wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't on a computer screen
  3. The tone of discussions and disagreements can be triggering for me personally. After visiting SA meetings, I wonder why responses I see on the forum are often/sometimes much more argumentative and confrontational/challenging than what I would expect to hear at meetings. I know, I know. We're Jews and we fight and get passionate because we care.
  4. In SA, it's called focusing on the problem. 
  5. It's always encouraging to hear about others successes and celebrations of milestones (I almost hit 30 days for the 1st time in many months recently!). But it's really discouraging and triggering to hear about their falls afterwards, or before (but then i didn't ). This happens at SA too, a lot. And its really just part of recovery/growing together with a group I think. 
  6. It's triggering sometimes when people are wrong 
    :pinch: Warning: Spoiler!
  7. It's triggering when people are stupid
    :pinch: Warning: Spoiler!

That's about all I can think of, and it's way past my bedtime anyways. I'd like to hear your thoughts?

Also, thanks for the ADD Dov thread if you started it. I hope to check it out next chance I get

Re: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 04 Dec 2016 21:30 #299093

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In the end of last week’s Parsha, Esav marries Mochlas the daughter of Yishmael. There is a well-known Gemara that whoever marries  is forgiven for all his sins. That Gemara is learnt from this marriage of Esav the murderer, lier and rapist who symbolizes the Satan to the daughter of Yishmael, the wild Pere Adam, whose offspring are still living up to their description of his hand against everyone and everyone’s hand against him. And yet, the process of marriage to Mochlas brought a mechilah.

There is much to be learned here but I want to focus on a new thought that came to me when learning Rashi yesterday.

This marriage was apparently a demonstration of Esav living up to his description of sticking out his cloven hooves and pretending to be kosher. He saw that his parents did not want Yaakov to marry a Canaanite girl so he too went and married a daughter of Yishmael, yet he remained with his other wives, who vexed his parents with their Avodah Zarah.

But maybe Rashi (28:7) is telling us something else.

Esav saw that Yitzchak blessed Yaakov, even after he was aware of Yaakov’s trick, he ratified that Yaakov was going to be the chosen one to fill the role of being the father of the Nation that would fulfill the world’s destiny. All their primordial struggles were over. Yaakov had now won both Olam Habo and Olam Hazeh. Esav was finished, destined to live out what remained of his days in a glut of taavos and then be conscribed to the dust-heap of history while he paid for his sins for all eternity. If there was anyone who had a right to be me’yaesh it was he. Nevertheless, when he saw that marriage to someone from his family was a step in the direction of holiness and pleasing to his parents, Esav decided to do that. I don’t know how much of a nisayon it was to go and marry another wife, but it had some wholesome motivating factor. Esav didn’t even have the moral backbone to put aside his existing wives, and it would be ludicrous to think that this would change the course of history, but it was a small step and however down and out he was, it was one little act he could take in the direction of what is right, so he took it.

That little step, which seemed so pointless could have been a gamechanger. All his previous sins were wiped out when he stood under the chuppah. He could have used that moment of grace to start over, but unfortunately for him he didn’t. But he did teach us about the power of not being meya’esh.

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Last Edit: 07 Dec 2016 00:46 by eslaasos.

Re: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 06 Dec 2016 18:10 #299270

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לְדָוִ֗ד מַ֫שְׂכִּ֥יל אַשְׁרֵ֥י נְֽשׂוּי־פֶּ֗שַׁע כְּס֣וּי חֲטָאָֽה
תהלים לב

אשרי מי שמוחלים לו על הפשע שפשע במה שכסה חטאיו, כי מצד שהוא כסוי חטאה ואינו מתודה עליהם שב החטא לפשע ומרד כמחזיק בחטאותיו וענשו קשה, ואשרי מי שנושאים לו פשע זה הגדול
(מלבי״ם)
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Re: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 07 Dec 2016 00:41 #299297

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Markz wrote on 06 Dec 2016 18:10:
לְדָוִ֗ד מַ֫שְׂכִּ֥יל אַשְׁרֵ֥י נְֽשׂוּי־פֶּ֗שַׁע כְּס֣וּי חֲטָאָֽה
תהלים לב

אשרי מי שמוחלים לו על הפשע שפשע במה שכסה חטאיו, כי מצד שהוא כסוי חטאה ואינו מתודה עליהם שב החטא לפשע ומרד כמחזיק בחטאותיו וענשו קשה, ואשרי מי שנושאים לו פשע זה הגדול
(מלבי״ם)

How about explaining that in English for those of us not on your level of learning?
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Re: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 07 Dec 2016 02:06 #299304

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I'm not yet on your level sorry.
אַשְׁרֵ֥י נְֽשׂוּי־פֶּ֗שַׁע כְּס֣וּי חֲטָאָֽה
The literal meaning is
"Fortunate is the one that his sins are removed and his misdeeds are covered" (Tehillim 32:1)

In other words hiding is a good thing

The Malbim z'l flips the message of the passuk and explains

"Fortunate is the one that his sins are removed. Which sins? That his misdeeds are covered"

In other words hiding isn't always a good thing
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Last Edit: 07 Dec 2016 02:12 by Markz.

Re: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 14 Dec 2016 14:19 #299910

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Singularity wrote:

R' Shimshon Pincus explains it's reality to have ups and downs. But the chiddush is the down period begins at the peak of the up period, because we believe all is good and therefore no need to ask Hashem for stuff. So if, in the up periods, our mentality is still that of asking for more, being better, etc, like cordnoy said, then that "up" will be a new "down" and you won't have to go lower, only higher.
It heavily reduces the real down periods, the urges, etc. Good things can last. We have it in our minds it must come crashing down at some point.
Why?


If you leave your house for 6 months it will collect a heck of a lot of dust. Same if one does not shower for weeks he will be repugnant even if he did not exert and shvitz.
These are natural phenomena. 
The spiritual body is the same. Naturally we are in downhill mode. Even when you reach a peak plateau, you WILL crash c'v, unless you do as Cordnoy says "Work on bettering yourself" / KEEP ON TRUCKING

Singularity. I think this answers your other question - if you should update your count daily every morning?
IMHO it's not necessary and Dov doesn't buy it either as it's sort of white knuckling, however I believe there's a benefit in reaffirming your commitment daily to make today a great one, if that's your intent in the click
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Re: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 14 Dec 2016 15:18 #299922

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Thanks.

I'll try have more Kavonnah in my clicks!

How do you know you've surpassed the level of white-knuckling?
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Re: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 14 Dec 2016 17:03 #299934

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If you are happy/calm/serene, you are not white knuckling.  If you are restless/irritable and expending a lot of energy to "not look", "not fantasize" or "not do any other acting out activity", you are white-knuckling. 

I'm not sure you ever totally get past white-knuckling.  I haven't.  I still white-knuckle occasionally, but a lot less frequently than I used to.
Last Edit: 14 Dec 2016 17:06 by gibbor120.

Re: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 15 Dec 2016 23:58 #300062

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If you are happy/calm/serene, you are not white knuckling.  If you are restless/irritable and expending a lot of energy to "not look", "not fantasize" or "not do any other acting out activity", you are white-knuckling. 

Thank you gibbor for the definition. It helps clarify that in my mind. Sometimes I am not sure where I am and your explanation helps me out. 


I'm not sure you ever totally get past white-knuckling.  I haven't.  I still white-knuckle occasionally, but a lot less frequently than I used to.


Another great thanks! I b'H have not been white knuckling, but sometimes, every once in a while, it feels like I am. I guess it's part of the whole trucking thing; some days are easier than others, and on the other ones when I feel like I might be white knuckling it a bit, I know that if I work more on the ideas in the handbook and on my sobriety it will go away and I'll be back to ME!

Thanks gibbor for the great share!

Re: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 01 Jan 2017 05:20 #301681

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Today's chizuk email

Learning Torah for the Sitra Achara?!
By an anonymous GYE Member

I once saw a quote from Rav Shach, zatzal, (and later verified from someone who had heard him say it) that if the wife of a kollel yungerman wears short or tight-fitting clothes (and I suspect he would include some of the realistic and provocative sheitlach found today), then all the Torah the husband learns is going to the sitra achara. Please try and share this...


Dear email composer
Please share with the anonymous author that if he wants to give chizuk it should be with an open mind (I'm sponsoring free can openers) and understanding, that men and women have their own struggles.

I heard many awesome stories about Rav Shachs sensitivities and unless verified what he actually said, I will presume that if the wife doesn't dress a certain way, that his her issue alone, not her husband's (I'm talking from my experience) and cannot depreciate from his avodas Hashem. 

So whoever needs, this is your chizuk for tonight ;-)...

Until the next email... 
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Re: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 01 Jan 2017 21:06 #301735

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It's a b'feirushe comment in YWN, written lihedya. There's even a tanya d'maseya lo from a kuntrus.

www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/184920/kol-koreh-a-call-for-maintaining-modesty-standards.html
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Re: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 01 Jan 2017 21:16 #301736

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I love Kol koreh's

Its the YWN JHF section
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Re: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 01 Jan 2017 21:22 #301737

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In all seriousness for a moment (if that's allowed at all), there was a time (granted, it was generations ago) when women used to listen to their husbands. Some husbands remain quiet regarding the clothing style of their wives and some even encourage it (those styles you mentioned above).
I'm all about that (substantial) bass, no trouble ....
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