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Hashem has given me 11 yrs sobriety but very different experience...
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A platform of recovery for Jews who find themselves struggling with addictions to pornography, masturbation or other sexual problems. Post anonymously about your struggles without fear of anyone finding out who you are. Ask questions, post answers and be inspired! Get tips and guidance from the experts who moderate this forum, as well as from fellow strugglers.
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TOPIC: Hashem has given me 11 yrs sobriety but very different experience... 2114 Views

Re: Hashem has given me 11 yrs sobriety but very different experience... 11 Sep 2019 14:38 #343512

  • lionking
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sleepy wrote on 11 Sep 2019 13:36:
what im trying to get at is, it sounded like dov was saying that those who try to deal with it with Torah and Mussar are hypocrites,because they wouldnt do that for other illnesses.(now after you read this point , if you reread my post youll hear better what i was trying to say, sorry for not clarifying the first time.)

Have you ever spoken to Dov? He never says such a thing. He actually recommended to me that I shouldn't join a 12 step program. You can email or call him to clarify what he did mean or not mean. He is not mean.

By the way, this is totally off tangent. But I've heard of people who treat regular health issues based on what they consider the torah says. Some one didn't want to vaccinate his child for measles, because he claims the torah doesn't allow it, however when his dayan paskened that all pi torah he is obligated to vaccinate, his response was that the dayan doesn't know what he's talking about. 
some people can distort torah to whatever suits their agenda best.
Someone on the forum, once posted a good line regarding if torah allows a person to join a 12 step program? His response was, Does torah allow a person to masturbate and look at porn?!
A lot of people that join 12 steps have tried learning mussar, etc... But it is in the abstract. They needed to actual live with Torah and Mussar.
My email address is: growinghigher613@gmail.com

Re: Hashem has given me 11 yrs sobriety but very different experience... 11 Sep 2019 15:56 #343516

  • sleepy
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lionking wrote on 11 Sep 2019 14:38:

sleepy wrote on 11 Sep 2019 13:36:
what im trying to get at is, it sounded like dov was saying that those who try to deal with it with Torah and Mussar are hypocrites,because they wouldnt do that for other illnesses.(now after you read this point , if you reread my post youll hear better what i was trying to say, sorry for not clarifying the first time.)

Have you ever spoken to Dov? He never says such a thing

he may not say it but thats what his post inferred and thats why i asked my question.(to find out what he meant)
its ok to ask questions ,isnt it?
For an explanation on my choice of username and avatar see my first post
Last Edit: 11 Sep 2019 21:16 by sleepy.

Re: Hashem has given me 11 yrs sobriety but very different experience... 11 Sep 2019 15:59 #343517

  • sleepy
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btw ,i dont think or have inferred that dov is mean.
For an explanation on my choice of username and avatar see my first post

Re: Hashem has given me 11 yrs sobriety but very different experience... 11 Sep 2019 21:10 #343525

  • sleepy
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sleepy wrote on 11 Sep 2019 03:12:
Dov wrote:
"I think some frum people, especially those who feel strongly about either beating the Yetzer Hora themselves as a supreme kiddush Hashem, or  who feel that the answer must be in Torah if they look hard enough have a hard time with this approach. I doubt they do the same with any other disease."

Dear R' Dov,
I think why this disease is not a good comparison to other diseases  is,because the cure to the disease of  addiction is not a pop of a pill , or chemo.I dont know of anyone who has a deadly disease who requires medicine or chemo, will not take them ,and will use Torah and Mussar as a cure just like they wont call a Talmid Chacham to fix their air conditioner. whereas addiction ,as i understand it from reading articles here ,the cure is steps in mental attitudes/steps and workingthose attitudes/steps seriously.therefore one can assume that maybe there are attitudes to be found in Torah and Mussar ,Sefarim,especialy when we  have Hashem helping us find the right sources and seeing that we are searching how to be metaher ourselves from lust,there is a glowing hope that He will bless our efforts.( im not referring to addicts who are in danger of harming others,or physicaly harming themselves ,meeting up with others ,prostitutes,they should probably takings meds.)
 the sefer Cheshbon Hanefesh discusses a person who is walking in the street when he  comes accross a woman of ill fame's block ,and visits her, after that episode he decides im not doing it again but when he approaches that block  again , he visits again, although before he reached the block he was determined not to fall and this keeps on happening.(sounds like addiction),and the Cheshbon Hanefesh explains what happened when he reached that block and how to avoid such a problem.
thanks for clarifying .



i read someone post here:
by the way, that the steps do not have anything about drinking/acting out, just learning how to live right and think right so we do not get so uncomfortable that we may need to medicate Ch"v.
just to clarify my point,

Dear R' Dov,
I think why this disease is not a good comparison to other diseases  is,because the cure to the disease of  addiction is not a pop of a pill , or chemo,the cure is steps in mental attitudes/steps and working those attitudes/steps seriously( to learn how to live right and think right) .therefore one can assume that maybe there are attitudes to be found in Torah and Mussar (to learn how to live right and think right )

the cure to yene machla is not  learning how to live right and think right ,so dont open a gemara or mussar sefer for a cure ,run to your nearest hospital and scream ,"help someone save me, i need chemo!"

i happen to know of a certain sefer that teaches one how to live and think right, but it has to be learnt seriously,and i know of talmidim of that author who live very exalted lives and think very exalted thoughts.

so to summarize,im not knocking 12 steps,i would just like clarification ,yes,they learn Mussar and Torah to deal with lust,to teach them how to live and think right in this world(Rabeinu,lamdeynu orchas chaim-Our Master teach us the ways of  LIFE  ,the Torah is called Toras CHAIM -A Torah of LIFE  which teaches one how to live,KI HU CHAYECHA VIORACH YAMECHA -Torah is your life and length of days in THIS world AND the next world,KACH HEE DARKA SHEL TORAH- PAS BAMELECH Tochal etc.- This is the way of Torah, bread etc,if you do this ASRECHA VTOV LICHA fortunate are you, and it will be good for you ,ASRECHA-BIOLAM HAZEH fortunate youll be IN THIS WORLD ,VITOV LECHA BIOLAM HABA and it will be good for you in olam haba, and other statements the Torah teaches someone how to live right and therefore not need to medicate themselves with lust-why should they do the same and learn Torah and Mussar for any other disease, the Torah itself says for other diseases V'RAH'PE YI'RAHPE-go to a Dr.."
i hope i was clearer this time.
For an explanation on my choice of username and avatar see my first post
Last Edit: 11 Sep 2019 21:54 by sleepy.

Re: Hashem has given me 11 yrs sobriety but very different experience... 11 Sep 2019 21:37 #343526

  • lionking
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sleepy wrote on 11 Sep 2019 15:59:
btw ,i dont think or have inferred that dov is mean.

You haven't.
It was just a play on words. Mean as is meaning, versus Mean as is being a bad guy that people are afraid of.
Sorry for my ill sense of humor.

p.s. This time around, I think you were very clear. And Kol Hakovad for those that can learn a certain sefer and live exalted life's. I hope to be able to reach that level one day. 
Everyone should do what works for them.
My email address is: growinghigher613@gmail.com
Last Edit: 11 Sep 2019 21:40 by lionking.

Re: Hashem has given me 11 yrs sobriety but very different experience... 11 Sep 2019 21:59 #343528

  • sleepy
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amen, i just wanted to know why he felt that those people were hypocrites , meaning i just wanted to know what he meant, after all that i wrote maybe he disagrees,i was just asking for clarification.
For an explanation on my choice of username and avatar see my first post

Re: Hashem has given me 11 yrs sobriety but very different experience... 11 Sep 2019 22:02 #343529

  • sleepy
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and be well, btw.
For an explanation on my choice of username and avatar see my first post

Re: Hashem has given me 11 yrs sobriety but very different experience... 16 Sep 2019 19:13 #343590

  • sleepy
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does anyone know if dov stays away from gye during elul?
For an explanation on my choice of username and avatar see my first post
Last Edit: 16 Sep 2019 19:14 by sleepy.

Re: Hashem has given me 11 yrs sobriety but very different experience... 16 Sep 2019 19:53 #343591

  • cordnoy
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sleepy wrote on 16 Sep 2019 19:13:
does anyone know if dov stays away from gye during elul?

He stays away, period.
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Re: Hashem has given me 11 yrs sobriety but very different experience... 17 Sep 2019 05:22 #343593

  • sleepy
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thanks
For an explanation on my choice of username and avatar see my first post
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