lifebound wrote on 12 Feb 2018 03:06:

Hi Lifebound.
I have been in similar situations as you! I would have a fall, and then feel terribly guilty about it! I'd wander around the halls of the yeshivah, hardly learning a word. Of course, with all that guilt, I'd say to myself, I'm hopeless anyway, why bother, and then I'd do it again, and again, and feel more depressed....and so on.
It was, and still is very hard to break out of that cycle. (I am married for 13 years so far, and still find it hard.)
Here are some thouhgts/ideas that helped me:

1) Hashem LOVES me, and is rooting for me. HE wants me to win. HE is on my side. HE is happy (כביכול) when I win. Every victory, no matter how tiny, is important to him. There is no such thing in HIS eyes as "what's the point?" If you have 100 diamonds in your pocket, and you discover that there is a hole, and 80 of them slipped out, would you say what is the point, and let the rest slip out?
2) I heard in the name of R. Shimshon Pincus, that every time we overcome a nisayon in these areas, that creates a big עת רצון! If you know somebody, a relative or close friend, who is in need of parnassah or a רפואה שלמה, dedicate your fight to that person. Say to yourself that in so and so's merit, I WILL WIN this fight this time. A few years back, when missiles from Gaza were falling over Israel, and air raid sirens were going off all the time (I live in Jerusalem), when faced with a challenge, I said to myself that klal yisroel needs a zechus now, I CAN NOT do this now. I was able to stay clean for a while using this tactic. 
3) You say "What's the point", yet you get depressed over a failure. That means that there is a point. If you really felt that it's pointless, you wouldn't feel guilty about it. On some level, you feel that there is a point, and that's why you feel upset over failing. Deep down, you know that you do care, and you do want to do the right thing. 
4) There are a few pesukim in Koheles that describe a king besieging a city. An old wise man saved the city, but everyone forgot about him. Chazal say that this is a moshul for the מלחמת היצר. If we analyze it, it says that everyone forgot about him. That means that when faced with a battle, we can forget about the past. Previous losses are of no account right now (we will have to do teshuvah for them, however). If we lost the battle yesterday, it has no impact on today's fight. We clear the record for each fight. If we don't the yetzer hara definitely acts this way. If we won the fight 100 times, he still comes back at us anew. He is undeterred by 100 failures, and still goes at it with no holds barred. So should we!
5) Hashem provides us with nisyanos that we can pass. HE knows exactly what we are capable of, and pushes us to the limit. But not beyond that limit. Sometimes it seems that there is nothing we can do, but there is. Hashem knows how hard and how strong and for how long we can fight. It is a very difficult, but fair, fight. When gripped by a strong ta'aveh, daven right them and there. Something along the lines of "Hashem, this fight is very hard. I don't know if I can win, please fortify me, so that I can do what you want me to do". I can't tell you how often I was saved by this. Often, Hashem's answer is subtle. It may be an infusion of strength, or it may be a subtle distraction that causes us to look the other way for a while. 
6) You know what situations cause you to stumble. Whether in bed, the bathroom, or the shower. Avoid those situations like the plague! If you can't, find tricks to minimize the fight. If I sleep without a blanket, I know that I won't do anything, (I was in a dorm) because anyone can see. Avoiding the fight COUNTS AS A FULL FLEDGED WIN!
I hope this helps!

@Yerushalmi: Saved this to my phone. Thank you.

Yerushalmi, your post is gadlus.

Hashem Help Me wrote on 15 Feb 2018 05:43:

It really is. I nominate this for Post of the Year.
Seriously, I feel like this should be stickied somewhere. It's well-written, clear, and gets right to the point.

Hi friends. I'm sharing this here in the hopes that it may provide clarity to those who can relate. I'd love to hear any thoughts or feedback.

I'm BH at 11 days clean, and while that feels pretty good, I've been feeling pretty low the last week or so. I feel lost and unsure where this journey would lead, how to keep it going, whether I'm considered an addict or not, etc. It took a while to pinpoint what was bothering me but I think I nailed it down. I sent an email to a fellow member with my theory and he responded very positively, saying it put into words what he had felt all along, and he suggested I post it. So here it is.
------------------------

I mentioned last night when we spoke that, as selfish and stupid as it sounds, I wished I was an addict. Or rather, I wish I had the self-awareness, honesty and sense of belonging that I perceive addicts have, more so than non-addicts.

Today after giving it some thought I came to a realization where this might be stemming from. I know I'm not an openly emotional person. I do think I am internally emotional, but sharing emotions and feelings with others is something I've never done. I do have 2-3 close friends...we enjoy each others company, enjoy hanging out, speak the same language etc...but that deep emotional bond is not there (at least, we never acknowledged or experienced it). But in the last few months, especially the last few weeks, I've opened up and connected emotionally to others in ways that I've never before experienced.

So here's what I think is going on: I'm drunk, in a sense, on this connection. I've found people on GYE that relate to my darkest secrets, who I can openly discuss things with. Again, I've NEVER done that until the last few weeks. But now that I know what it's like, I want more of it. I want that soul-level connection and the camaraderie that comes with it. If calling myself an addict will achieve that, then, I tell myself, that's what I wish to be.

This would also explain another weird thing I've been doing: I've been obsessed with GYE itself. I check the website constantly, hoping to find a new post or hoping someone will reach out so we can chat. Or if I see someone new joins, I'll immediately send them a private chat or PM. Not that that's a bad thing, I think I've helped some people, but it bothered me why I was so desperate to connect to others on there. Now I think I know why.

I relate to this almost exactly 

Personally the only reason I have not joined this elite group is because I feel it will do more harm than good and I would use the meetings to get my fix
Not saying you are doing this but make sure that you honestly need this and are not finding another way to get your fix

KOMTNMW

MayanHamisgaber wrote on 22 Feb 2018 03:14:

Hey Mayan thanks.
I'm assuming by "elite group" you mean addicts? If so then yes, from what I've read and heard from others here, the full addict regimen is generally not a good idea for non-addicts, although there is what to learn from both sides of the coin. Workingguy said it better than me in this post: guardyoureyes.com/forum/4-On-the-Way-to-90-Days/310838-My-Book-of-Business?limit=15&start=465#322535

Regarding my own situation, from hearing the complete powerlessness and lack of control the way addicts describe it, I don't think I have it quite that bad. In some ways yes, but in others not. I'm not entirely sure what my "label" is. Currently I have no plans to join meetings. I'm sure it would help with the loneliness and desire to feel connected but I don't know that it's what I need for my actual lust recovery. When you say you'd use meetings to get your fix, you mean the meetings themselves would be a trigger for you?

Very well said, when we have a void in our lives we will look for something to fill that void.i heard from my therapist that one of the tools he often uses to figure out what's bothering someone is by asking him what kind of pornography he watches based on the type that he watches very often he could figure out which kind of void he is trying to fill in his life. So it's great that you were able to pinpoint the void that you are trying to fix in your life.

btw congrats on the 11 days. I love your desire, to truly get to understand yourself and became extremely Self Aware. KEEP IT UP!

 Love Your Dear Friend Yankel 

Thanks Yankel. I've never heard that technique. Very interesting.

Lifebound has put into words so eloquently what I have felt for a long time. Here I am, a people person, and I am harboring this massive load inside of me which cant be shared with my closest friends. Oh the loneliness! Along comes GYE and I get to intimately know some guys. We share very personal issues - such a relief. There is no inhibition; we say it all. Because we have not actually met our "new friends" they take on a spiritual level. Our relationship transcends outward appearances, religious leanings, social/financial status, age, married/single status, etc. 

Recently I met a GYE chaver for the first time after speaking over the phone for many months. We live many many miles apart but he had travelled to the area where I live for a business meeting. The hug we gave each other as a greeting was so genuine, so natural, so automatic, and so real. It was like meeting a long lost brother. We understand each other so well. We have been so transparent with each other.  Our neshamos are bonded.

Regarding the obsession of accessing the GYE website. We all get obsessed on recovery. For the first time in our lives we actually start to see that maybe maybe we can break free. We feel desperate that we just have to learn more and more as fast as possible. Secondly we finally taste connection - and we cant get enough of it. Maybe someone on the chat will be able to listen to me, share with me, connect with me in that real and meaningful way.

By the way, regarding that chaver I recently met - The connection is so real that it does not matter that we may not see each other again for a long time. And it does not even matter that I do not know his real name. I didn't even think of asking.

Very true Post! I felt the same way when i met you and chat with you! It's funny even though I don't know your name it doesn't matter. I feel more of a connection with you than some of my friends who i've been friends with for years! 

And another thing i love is that over here i could  show my true feelings and finish all my posts with  :kissing_heart:Love Your Good Friend Yankel in real life it will be kinda weird!

:kissing_heart:Love Your Good Friend Yankel

my therapist gave me the contact information of a fellow person in recovery a few weeks ago whom I have yet to call, so he asks me why haven’t you called?
i say oh I haven’t had time
he says I think there may be more to it
and I think about it and I tell him that I feel uncomfortable calling because I’m just some kid who’s watched some porn and who said this guy has time for me.
two key thoughts there I’m not worth it and I have to appear perfect
so I thought I could share the idea of his response with you:
This is not a contest, whether you have used porn 30 times or 300 or 3000, whether you have gone to behaviors beyond porn/ real life encounters, whatever it is, we are all going through a very similar struggle in many many ways. Whether or not you label yourself as an addict, don’t worry about that right now. If you believe that being in contact with people and building a network helps you, then by all means, go for it! If you believe that you don’t need to go to SA meetings, then ok, but that doesnt mean that you can’t join a network of people that are in your boat.

lifebound thanks for shearing you have a great point and HakolMiliala is right, not everyone addict or not has to go to SA meetings, i my self was/em a lite addict but joining a network/group that are in the same boat that can give advise and that i can contact with people and have this relationship like Hashem help me has put so beautifully has help me amazingly and even when one of my partners suggested that i should go to SA and i spoke to the group leader he told me that if something else is working for me i shouldn't go to SA, but one thing everyone seems to agree here what ever if we need SA or not,  is that the gye connection system that you can  make a true relationship that you can say all your feelings can help a lot!  hazlacha on what ever path hashem takes you!    

lifebound wrote on 22 Feb 2018 03:51:

No the meetings themselves would not be a trigger and I would like to meet some other gye family members again (I attended an O.I.N.K. meeting once and met two heavy weights) 
The trigger for me would be when the sharing started of the struggles and the load down of their life story for whatever step that is

Right sorry that's basically what I meant. The meetings and detailed sharing that go along with it.
What's an O.I.N.K. meeting?