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This time I mean business!
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A platform of recovery for Jews who find themselves struggling with addictions to pornography, masturbation or other sexual problems. Post anonymously about your struggles without fear of anyone finding out who you are. Ask questions, post answers and be inspired! Get tips and guidance from the experts who moderate this forum, as well as from fellow strugglers.

TOPIC: This time I mean business! 30693 Views

Re: This time I mean business! 01 Mar 2017 19:39 #307170

  • cordnoy
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Ok.
Then we have reached an impasse.

B'hatzlachah
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Disclaimer: I am not a cheerleader; B"H, there are many on the site. I am here to change myself, and with God's help, by some mistake, I might even help change others.

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Re: This time I mean business! 01 Mar 2017 21:53 #307192

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eslaasos wrote on 01 Mar 2017 17:49:
Una, I relate to all you wrote but could you elaborate some more?
Like you, I also learnt through the people here on GYE how to deal with life differently and I have also experienced this change where in a situation of stress I focus on my "side of the street", which is very liberating.
However, I haven't been able to keep away completely from escaping, so although there have been very big changes, it hasn't been as complete as yours.
Can you do a remote diagnosis?

First of all I still do plenty of escaping. Don't get me wrong. My escapes though are usually more productive like playing guitar and reading the news and gye posts. (I managed to cut my news consumption down tremendously by picking two kosher sites. One English and one Hebrew and I found some way of getting every article as an email which eliminates my browsing the internet for news) 
And more unhealthy I play solitaire often. But no where near as much as I used to.

But my escaping is more in terms of unwinding and recharging my batteries now than running away from my problems like it used to be

The more i get to know myself, the more I am aware of what is going on in my mind. When stress is coming on, I notice it earlier and step away before I become completely overwhelmed from it. 
When loneliness is kicking in, I make sure to stop what I am doing and spend quality time with my wife. Cutting out the need for sex has made it easier to spend time with my wife for short amounts of quality time. I learned to live in the present and a short quality conversation can be enough to feel connected, thus eliminating loneliness. Also I have a group of gye friends that i am in touch with and can usually get responses soon enough. 

Now that you pinned me down, I am not sure I have all the answers. I hoped this helped somewhat.
I think that by realizing that lust was coming from the other issues, when those issues come up I realize that porning out won't help and the need to escape with porn became less. I am aware that the issue is stress (for example) and as long as I focus on relaxing from the stress the lust is not as strong. 
Maybe if you push me more i would be able to come up with more specific answers to your issue. And maybe not. 

Re: This time I mean business! 01 Mar 2017 22:21 #307196

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Hashivalisesonyishecho wrote on 01 Mar 2017 17:54:



I think I know what my underlying issues are that bother me tremendously. I have known for a while but not managed to improve them much. I have tried therapy a bit, but got nowhere so I stopped. I would love to have a way to improve those things that bother me most. I'm not referring to this acting out, but I'm referring to managing to get to live the way I want to live. How did you get improvement in those types of things?

I don't know how to answer. I guess  I was blessed by Hashem to be able to deal with these things on my own, 
But perhaps the answer is honesty. Being honest with myself. Being honest to who I really am and not who I would like to be or who I once was. 
And acceptance. Accepting that things are the way they are and I am the way I am. Allowing myself to be not as productive and learning and davening well as I demanded of myself in the past. 
Acceptance of things that happened to me through my life. 
I read a lot..both mussar - (specifically Rav Volbe in Alei Shur and how he describes how the mind works and stuff) and also a lot of books on self management, and self awareness. (7 habits of highly efective people is a big one) 
Alot of sharing with others. My wife and my gye buddies. 

perhaps if you send me an email with some of the things you are dealing with, i can relate to them and tell you from my experience how i dealt with them specifically. unanumun@gmail.com

Re: This time I mean business! 02 Mar 2017 09:55 #307222

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Hashivalisesonyishecho wrote on 01 Mar 2017 14:33:

Singularity wrote on 01 Mar 2017 07:14:

Hashivalisesonyishecho wrote on 01 Mar 2017 03:04:

Markz wrote on 01 Mar 2017 01:29:

Hashivalisesonyishecho wrote on 01 Mar 2017 00:20:
A few are advising a deeper look. It's true but it has no sof. To me the problem comes occasionally, and I don't see how I can make life life upsetness free that I won't feel an eptiness occasionally. I think for me it's more just about a sharp cut. But I hear Cords saying t read the books. Cords, is that a long term plan? Is that what's working for you? Or what is?

Porn also has no sof
Is that an impediment to perusing 1% when we are in lusting mode?
No

So why not put in 1% into sobriety. That's it. Not 1 bit more, and see where it takes you

Thinking about you my friend!!

Sometimes I expect people to read my mind, and so I don't make myself understood in my words. I meant to say that it's hard to say that the problem is deep rooted because in deep rootedness there is no sof, so if that's the problem then there will always be a problem. But there must be a way to cut off of bad behavior even before all deep issues are resolved. So while I should dig deeper, I should simultaneously be trying to stop this behavior even before I've done a satisfactory job with the deeper stuff.

I think that's the AA principle of the first step being to stop drinking entirely. Even if you're still a wreck of a person. So good you've realised that.

Also, I've read about your BT analogies, and I feel some of them are BS (haha sorry, couldn't resist).

I'm a BT. I'll have you know it's not all about making the cut. Actually, the more I cut, the more I was cutting myself. And BT's who make the biggest cuts usually burn out the quickest. Keep it in mind.

Then you are the right person to please tell me what becoming a BT is about.

Probably not. I did it all wrong. I started becoming more Torah observant in 2010, pretty much turning 180 degrees in the course of 3 months then going to yeshiva.

Though I feel I became a Ba'al Teshuva Erev Yom Kippur 5777 (2016) when I attended my first SAA meeting.
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Re: This time I mean business! 02 Mar 2017 14:09 #307243

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What you say about turning 180 degrees in the course of 3 months, basically confirms what I am saying. You made a huge sharp cut and it lasted.

Re: This time I mean business! 02 Mar 2017 14:33 #307245

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Hashivalisesonyishecho wrote on 02 Mar 2017 14:09:
What you say about turning 180 degrees in the course of 3 months, basically confirms what I am saying. You made a huge sharp cut and it lasted.

I agree it worked with me. But I am and I have been told that I'm an exception. Growth doesn't sustain with major cuts all the time.
"Vegeta, what does the scouter say about his sobriety level?"
"... It's over NINE-ZEROOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!"

One day... At A Time :-D


Introduce Yourself and get a free karma point from yours truley!
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Re: This time I mean business! 02 Mar 2017 15:25 #307253

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Singularity wrote on 02 Mar 2017 14:33:

Hashivalisesonyishecho wrote on 02 Mar 2017 14:09:
What you say about turning 180 degrees in the course of 3 months, basically confirms what I am saying. You made a huge sharp cut and it lasted.

I agree it worked with me. But I am and I have been told that I'm an exception. Growth doesn't sustain with major cuts all the time.

From what I have heard from Baaley teshuva, that's the way it happens for most. Basically, more or less, give or take. But I'm not talking about cutting all the time. In my original post I said one big sharp cut and from there is much easier forever after.

Re: This time I mean business! 02 Mar 2017 23:16 #307294

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Hashivalisesonyishecho wrote on 02 Mar 2017 15:25:

Singularity wrote on 02 Mar 2017 14:33:

Hashivalisesonyishecho wrote on 02 Mar 2017 14:09:
What you say about turning 180 degrees in the course of 3 months, basically confirms what I am saying. You made a huge sharp cut and it lasted.

I agree it worked with me. But I am and I have been told that I'm an exception. Growth doesn't sustain with major cuts all the time.

From what I have heard from Baaley teshuva, that's the way it happens for most. Basically, more or less, give or take. But I'm not talking about cutting all the time. In my original post I said one big sharp cut and from there is much easier forever after.

Hashivah, I'm stepping out of my comfort zone to post this because I think/hope it will be l'toeles. I just feel bad because talk of an impasse makes it sounds like you are ready to give up if recovery requires too much of a sacrifice. If I'm off base with that assumption, I apologize and please stop reading here.

What are you asking for - are you looking for a quick and easy way to make a difficult change? No such think exists.

I think you are probably aware of the balance - yes, people report that some recovery efforts have had a huge impact, but I don't think anyone claims that recovery made life into a dreamworld where everyone lives happily ever after.
There is another balance. Half measures availed us nothing, but it's not all or nothing. I can be pretty dense, especially when objectivity is lacking, but this was explained to me. Half measures are when you actively pursue lust simultaneously with attempting to recover. 
On the other hand, even when I was fully committed down the path of acting out, it didn't cost me too much to hold on to the hope that one day I would reverse trends. See, I believe that even if I know I'm going to give in, and I do give in, it's kdai to at least regret it, and hope one day I will be different. Even better, to postpone it for 5 minutes and then indulge.
I don't have any plans to take the steps that Cordnoy took. I don't intend to attend SA meetings. I am too scared to open up to my wife (probably shouldn't anyway), or to my Rav (almost certainly should).
I am not ready to take those risks for recovery. I don't have the zitsfleish to read the Books.
But the phone calls (anonymous in the beginning) did appeal, and I grew tremendously from that tool, and that lead me to implement other tools I had never dreamed would be relevant to me.

So please don't give up.
Maybe find one of the tools that seems like something you can handle, and use that to hold on. My experience was that when I hit my rock bottom, the gloves came off and it was clear to see how Hashem picked me up and carried me. You never know what He has planned for you, but it helps if you at least keep the line open.

If people want to yell at me now for pontificating and offering advice, knock yourselves out.
Quotes that speak to me
What do we replace it with....Life (Cordnoy)
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Re: This time I mean business! 03 Mar 2017 01:57 #307303

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eslaasos wrote on 02 Mar 2017 23:16:

Hashivalisesonyishecho wrote on 02 Mar 2017 15:25:

Singularity wrote on 02 Mar 2017 14:33:

Hashivalisesonyishecho wrote on 02 Mar 2017 14:09:
What you say about turning 180 degrees in the course of 3 months, basically confirms what I am saying. You made a huge sharp cut and it lasted.

I agree it worked with me. But I am and I have been told that I'm an exception. Growth doesn't sustain with major cuts all the time.

From what I have heard from Baaley teshuva, that's the way it happens for most. Basically, more or less, give or take. But I'm not talking about cutting all the time. In my original post I said one big sharp cut and from there is much easier forever after.

Hashivah, I'm stepping out of my comfort zone to post this because I think/hope it will be l'toeles. I just feel bad because talk of an impasse makes it sounds like you are ready to give up if recovery requires too much of a sacrifice. If I'm off base with that assumption, I apologize and please stop reading here.

What are you asking for - are you looking for a quick and easy way to make a difficult change? No such think exists.

I think you are probably aware of the balance - yes, people report that some recovery efforts have had a huge impact, but I don't think anyone claims that recovery made life into a dreamworld where everyone lives happily ever after.
There is another balance. Half measures availed us nothing, but it's not all or nothing. I can be pretty dense, especially when objectivity is lacking, but this was explained to me. Half measures are when you actively pursue lust simultaneously with attempting to recover. 
On the other hand, even when I was fully committed down the path of acting out, it didn't cost me too much to hold on to the hope that one day I would reverse trends. See, I believe that even if I know I'm going to give in, and I do give in, it's kdai to at least regret it, and hope one day I will be different. Even better, to postpone it for 5 minutes and then indulge.
I don't have any plans to take the steps that Cordnoy took. I don't intend to attend SA meetings. I am too scared to open up to my wife (probably shouldn't anyway), or to my Rav (almost certainly should).
I am not ready to take those risks for recovery. I don't have the zitsfleish to read the Books.
But the phone calls (anonymous in the beginning) did appeal, and I grew tremendously from that tool, and that lead me to implement other tools I had never dreamed would be relevant to me.

So please don't give up.
Maybe find one of the tools that seems like something you can handle, and use that to hold on. My experience was that when I hit my rock bottom, the gloves came off and it was clear to see how Hashem picked me up and carried me. You never know what He has planned for you, but it helps if you at least keep the line open.

If people want to yell at me now for pontificating and offering advice, knock yourselves out.

This is a very nice post.

Re: This time I mean business! 05 Mar 2017 01:26 #307416

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II just started readin' a new book.

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GYE Handbook | Gibbor's Insights | GYE FAQ - Thanks Skep and DMS123456789 White Book | Big Book (Alcoholics Anonymous)

If one gives up at the first sign of a struggle, he is really not ready to be successful."
"Tryin' and doin' are two different thin's - tryin' is hopin'; doin' is succeedin'.
"The right thin' to do and the hard thin' to do are usually the same."


Disclaimer: I am not a cheerleader; B"H, there are many on the site. I am here to change myself, and with God's help, by some mistake, I might even help change others.

MY POSTS ARE NOT WRITTEN AS A MODERATOR UNLESS EXPLICITLY STATED.

Re: This time I mean business! 05 Mar 2017 03:13 #307419

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I have spoken further with the GYE member friend, and I further decided some things. I want to follow the rules of The Torah without feeling that I could skimp. Every time I watch the news, I feel that I am kind of breaking the rules a little bit because the presenters of the news are not really presentable by the real correct rules as far as I understand them, so I always have the feeling that I may bend the rules a bit. The breaking of those rules is maybe not such a tragedy (or maybe it is), but it is not a good mode to feel that the rules may be broken, because then it's vague, and you are always making on the spot decisions about how far to break the rules. So I don't watch the news any more. So you might say that's too of a hard life style, so I say that's what I'm cutting and allowing myself to shed some blood of giving away my whims. With things like that I am trying to be a different person like a BT. A new life style. When I speak on the phone to a customer service person, or at the counter in a store or the bank etc, not a single extra word. Because I need clear rules. Rules that aren't vague, and that aren't decided on the spot. I have decided on a different level of frumkeit than I had until now, and with that I am changed. That's how I am doing and that's what I hope will work.
Last Edit: 05 Mar 2017 03:15 by Hashivalisesonyishecho. Reason: typo

Re: This time I mean business! 05 Mar 2017 05:07 #307422

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There's more than a few decent news radio stations if you like news...
Like with everything there are ways you can balance your needs and life. Or at least do it in a more steadier pace instead of flipping a switch.
I'm worried the slips may hurt you more as a 'frummer' person.
My personal opinion just like with being Chozer Betzhuva is to be balanced and know who you are and what you need and how you can fulfil those needs and be true to yourself and to Hashem.
That was my mehalech.
News radios being an example.
Whitelisting several kosher sites and not just the forum another example.
But if you think a new level of frumkeit will work for you it's definitely worth trying.

Re: This time I mean business! 05 Mar 2017 05:23 #307424

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GrowStrong wrote on 05 Mar 2017 05:07:
There's more than a few decent news radio stations if you like news...
Like with everything there are ways you can balance your needs and life. Or at least do it in a more steadier pace instead of flipping a switch.
I'm worried the slips may hurt you more as a 'frummer' person.
My personal opinion just like with being Chozer Betzhuva is to be balanced and know who you are and what you need and how you can fulfil those needs and be true to yourself and to Hashem.
That was my mehalech.
News radios being an example.
Whitelisting several kosher sites and not just the forum another example.
But if you think a new level of frumkeit will work for you it's definitely worth trying.

All of the things you mentioned all within the rules, and are allowed for me. (I would like to know what the kosher radio stations are, if you could tell me.) My new lifestyle isn't all chumoros. It it kulos too. In the past, when I listened to the radio of some talk show, that was possibly breaking the rules, I had to shut the radio when my kids were coming in. Now that I plan to hear only radio that I have no feeling that maybe it's breaking rules, I will not hide from my kids anymore. I am not presenting to them that I am holy and don't listen to radio. If it's mutar let them see that I'm a regular person who listens to radio. I might decide that I should make eye contact when speaking to women, but not utter an extra word. I didn't do that in the past, because I was in a confusion of being better than I really am because what I really was, was not following correct rules, but if I follow correct rules, I don't have to be frummer than I have to be, so eye contact to normally dressed women should be ok. I am not completely sure though, because I'll have to see if it creates difficulty in not being marbe sicha. 

Re: This time I mean business! 07 Mar 2017 07:03 #307626

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When a sex offender is punished or warned, part of their requirements is that they may not view porn. Even though porn isn't otherwise illegal, for him it is. That's because for him, as an offender, it is a trigger to offensive behavior.  We have other reasons against porn, but I'm just using this to make a point. The same way, certain lifestyles which would not cause most people to be triggered to break their boundaries, for those for whom it does, those activities are illegal, I mean they should be out of limits. I think to continue to expose to all stuff which are triggers for him, and to be in some sort of rehab program at the same time, is like toivel vesheretz beyado. This person's lifestyle must exclude those things. Then he won't be triggered by them. I again use the mashal of the BT. So I think it's correct for me to have these things totally off limits with no return to them ever. It's clear and not vague, so with that I'm out of the mud of triggers. 

Re: This time I mean business! 08 Mar 2017 17:10 #307797

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I hope what I am doing will work. I have also decided that although in the past I didn't refrain from going to vacation places which were impossible to avoid prirtzus, such as Niagara falls, from now on I don't go. True ma rabu etc, but it's not really a mitzva. The mitzva is to avoid this trouble. When I go to the bank, I use the ATM when possible even if it means waiting a little longer on the line for the ATM than at the teller. Bekitzur I am a BT who avoids shmutz and also nisyonos even if they aren't shmutz for other people, as much as possible.
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