Dov Answers:

I'm told by a CSAT friend of mine that the current opinion among many CSATs is that it's better to avoid using the 'addict' label and model with clients, at least initially, and that giving the label is potentially damaging for many who are not addicts (and certainly many who come to GYE are not addicts).

A funny thing promulgated by some long-time GYE members was the encouragement to liberally apply the advice (it is not AA dogma, but rather AA suggestion) of "Once an addict, always an addict" to any and all GYE forum members. Yep. But this advice is only appropriate or honest when applied to addicts, of course. The funny thing though, is that over the years I have almost exclusively seen that very advice being applied by the very same people who are eager to have all people on GYE use the addiction/recovery model! The two mantras taken together are a sad narrative: "If you deny you are an addict, that proves it must be true - and once you are one, there is no escape forever. So, stick around with us!" Weird. But this is no surprise, for whenever we lie to ourselves or to others, another lie is required in order to create a context in which the first one can continue to survive. AA and SA have never been subject to such things because we use attraction, not promotion. And that old example was promotion at its most desperate. I'm glad it's rare on the forum, nowadays.

Secondly, it has always been my opinion that the reasons that Torah, Chaza"l, and the Jews never came up with AA and 12 Steps Culture are, first: Because religion is not about needing G-d but rather about serving Him correctly and fully, as Sandy B has so eloquently explained. Second: Addiction is not about the Yetzer Hora, which is why learning Torah does not work to stop Heroin, alcohol, or lust addiction. And third: Since all the last 11 steps are only about abandonment of self into G-d's care, 12 Steps recovery is really only for people who will do that. Most people are normal and are b"H given the tools to succeed at life without consciously abandoning themselves to G-d. We can easily see that Hashem created the world in such a way that most people really do not consciously need Him - whether they are religious or not. Addicts are different because - if they have a 1st step, they essentially have no choice but suicide in some form (which many choose, R"l, and we see entire lifetimes go down the tubes in all addictions because of choosing oblivion). Addicts are only different because they have a terminal illness, our ego can finally break, and we can face the fact that we have no other sensible alternative than to depend on our G-d. If it were a true choice, we'd never do it. Only a 'kafa aleihem ha'har k'gigis' experience can enable us to 'choose' dependence upon our G-d. Oh, well, it is what it is.

And, to me, this is the very beauty and greatness of the frum yidden I know who are not addicts and yet still place themselves into Hashem's care! They choose to do that, and that's an amazing thing. I am frum too - but I obviously never started to seriously place myself into His care until my addiction forced me to do do so. Surely only a fraction of normal yidden do that, but I believe there are still bH many of them and I love and admire them so much.

I feel that applying 12 steps and some of the 12 step concepts to non-addicts twists both realities, mixing falsehoods into yiddishkeit by distorting yetzer hora/avodas Hashem into feel-good messages, and also makes a mockery of recovery by pretending that it is Torah when it is in reality only derech eretz and about self-honesty.

In the end, I just think that everyone here will choose to follow their consciences and do things the way they feel best equipped to succeed at them. Life is pretty short and we need to run with what we've got, it seems. Thanks for letting me share how I see addiction/recovery, and some of the 'why'.

The following GYE password protected websites have been opened for all users by the following Jewish filter companies:

• Gentech
• Meshimer
• eNativ
• NativUSA
• NetFree
• Netspark
• Rimon
• Etrog

gye.nu - Our English password protected site

gye.be - Our Hebrew password protected site

gyeyid.com - Our Yiddish site

For both sites, this is the login info to access the sites:

User: gye

Password: safe613

If you know anyone who has this issue with our site, please let them know!

If you are in SA and are willing to be a contact for other frum people in your city who may need SA (to speak with them and introduce them to the groups), please send your contact info to gye.help@gmail.com (first name, cell number, anonymous email address).

Thank you!

Do you have a problem with obsessive and compulsive porn use? Have you seriously tried the tools on GYE and feel that you are not getting better? Maybe it’s time to consider joining a 12-Step program.

Porn Anonymous (PA)
If you’re compulsively acting-out with pornography and masturbation we suggest you explore joining Porn Anonymous (PA). If you need help deciding whether to join PA, call Michael at 347-699-2368, or email help@pornanonymous.org to schedule a time to talk. For more information visit pornanonymous.org (Hebrew: p-a.org.il / Yiddish: pa-yid.org).

Sexaholics Anonymous (SA)
If your compulsive acting-out has progressed beyond the screen (with other people, paid sexual services, etc.) we suggest you explore joining Sexaholics Anonymous (SA). To figure out if SA is for you, call Dov at 917-414-8205, or email Dov at dov@guardyoureyes.org to schedule a time to talk. For more information visit www.sa.org.